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Caspar Lee27 October 2022

Caspar Lee: How He Built A 10+ Million YouTube Following In His 20s (And Why He Quit)

4Frameworks
15Insights

Frameworks in this episode

Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Myth Buster· 1

Myth Buster1:25:30

Work-life balance advice hides the years that felt like play

Caspar says he does believe in work-life balance now, enabled by strong teams, but that in the early days he simply did not stop — and crucially it did not feel like a grind. His test: if it feels like a grind you probably cannot sustain it without burning out, whereas people riding momentum or love of the work can keep going. Ali adds Tiago Forte's line that you cannot outwork someone for whom it feels like play, and both reject the five-a.m.-no-matter-what genre of motivation as unsustainable. Caspar's counterweight is not to walk away just because one day is not fun.

I just didn't stop but it didn't feel like a grind so that's maybe the answer is like if it feels like a ground then…

Caspar Lee · 1:26:00

you can't really outwork someone who For Whom It Feels Like play

Ali Abdaal · 1:26:30

Hot Take· 2

Hot Take37:00

Money and fame accentuate whoever you already were

Caspar says he has met billionaires who are very unhappy, and rejects the simple reading. His model is that money and fame accentuate existing personality: kind people get to be kind at a larger scale, while unhappy people who expected wealth to fix it discover it has not, compounded by everyone around them saying yes. He notes a base level of money below which life is genuinely difficult, but says past that point more does not make people happier, and that spending a whole life chasing it is scary.

so I've met some billionaires they're just very unhappy

Caspar Lee · 37:00

like saying money whatever it is it kind of accentuates um whatever your personality is

Caspar Lee · 37:30
Hot Take1:31:30

The watch-time formula is flattening content, and viewers will tire of it

Caspar's concern about social media optimising entirely for watch time is what it does to variation. Even across very different topics, he says you can see the formula operating as a viewer — screaming at you in the opening to hook you, never allowing a second of boredom — and he predicts audiences eventually push away from it. He notes he is already seeing slower-paced videos perform well on YouTube, and that the maximally optimised stuff is not what he chooses to watch.

I am a bit afraid with social media being all about watch time what that does to just allowing for differences to occur

Caspar Lee · 1:31:30

you can almost see the formula happening in front of you as a viewer and I think people are going to eventually get a little…

Caspar Lee · 1:32:00

Explainer· 3

Explainer16:00

What creators actually earned in the early 2010s

Caspar breaks down creator economics before YouTube built its own ad stack. Networks sat between brands and channels, taking a share of AdSense, and he signed a bad one at 17. Starting out he had four thousand pounds in the bank and was making roughly two and a half to three thousand pounds a month. By 2013 to 2016, a creator pulling 20 million views a month might see around 20,000 pounds monthly from AdSense, which he estimates was only about 10 percent of total income, with brand deals, merchandise and platform retention deals making up the rest.

I was probably in the very beginning making like two and a half three thousand pounds a month

Caspar Lee · 16:30

maybe like 20 000 pounds a month from the AdSense but I think that would only make up like 10

Caspar Lee · 18:00
Explainer52:30

Why the 2019 break became a permanent exit

Caspar intended a few months off around the start of lockdown. His businesses were consuming more time, he was enjoying the work less, he was struggling for ideas, and he did not think his audience was enjoying it either as views slipped and the platform shifted from subscriber reach to watch time. He never made a decision to quit; a few weeks turned into years. He concluded that being a YouTuber now has to be a near full-time priority unless you have a great team, and he preferred to close the chapter well rather than cling on.

I just just didn't think about it too much without gonna take a few weeks and that that turned into years

Caspar Lee · 53:00

I didn't want to stay on YouTube as long as I possibly could and just wait I wanted to be like this was a great…

Caspar Lee · 54:30
Explainer58:00

Inside influencer.com: the workflow problem it solves

Caspar explains what the company actually does. A campaign can involve five approval stakeholders — brand, agency, influencer.com, manager and talent — multiplied across 300 creators with different styles and objectives. Waves for advertisers lets brands pick creators, shape and approve content, and receive analytics in one Trello-like board where stats are pulled straight from platform APIs rather than screenshots. Waves for creators, moving from web app to iPhone and Android, auto-populates media kits so creators share one link instead of screenshotting and updating stats.

he kind of told me about his dream of of helping creators um work with brands at scale

Caspar Lee · 55:30

the vision was to build meaningful relationships between Brands creators and their audiences

Caspar Lee · 56:00

Story· 6

Story04:30

Banned for ad clicks: the third channel that finally worked

Caspar's early goal was not money but a custom YouTube banner, which required a thousand subscribers and took two years. Shortly after becoming a partner, a classmate clicked his ads roughly a thousand times, YouTube read it as self-clicking fraud, and his partnership was pulled. He started over on a third channel, which is the one that took off. He is now friends with the classmate and says he would not be where he is without that reset.

Casper's trying to make a living by clicking his own ads and so they banned my uh my partnership and then I had to restart

Caspar Lee · 05:00

that is my advice for people don't ever feel scared to restart something

Caspar Lee · 05:30
Story07:30

Flying to the UK at 17 to meet people from the internet

Caspar found the UK YouTube scene through YouNow, a live-stream platform where you queued up to broadcast after other creators. He went live after Jacksgap, PointlessBlog and Marcus Butler, told them he loved their work and wanted to collaborate, and eventually they replied. He convinced his mother to let him fly to Britain to meet people he had met online, skipping a school hockey tour to do it, and was picked up at the airport by Marcus Butler.

I convinced my mom to let me fly to the UK to meet people I'd met on the internet uh the age of 17

Caspar Lee · 08:00
Story18:30

"What's your real job?" — until he met the Queen

At 19 and 20, Caspar could not explain his career to family. His grandmother kept asking what he was doing with his life, and being a YouTuber did not register as a job. He never used his bank balance as the argument. The moment it became legitimate in her eyes was when he met the Queen for the first time, after which she told him he finally had a real job and she was proud of him.

you're like well I'm a YouTuber this is my job and they're like well what's your real job

Caspar Lee · 19:00

the time my grandmother actually um understood it was a job worth pursuing was when I met the queen for the first time

Caspar Lee · 19:00
Story41:30

Tourette's, bullying, and why focus made it disappear

Caspar describes Tourette's beyond the swearing stereotype: whistling, head bobbing, leg clicking. His parents first recognised it when he screeched at an elephant during a Safari breakdown at about six. It worsened around twelve, brought bullying and teachers removing him from class, and medication that caused allergic reactions. Ticks improved whenever he was focused, whether playing tennis, gaming or making videos, which he thinks partly explains how obsessive he became about YouTube. He made a video about it in 2017 because hearing a US goalkeeper had Tourette's had helped him.

what made it better was when I was when I was ever when I was focusing on something so if I was playing tennis or…

Caspar Lee · 43:00

just hearing of someone's kind of successful having Tourette's made me feel really good

Caspar Lee · 44:00
Story45:00

Panic attacks in lockdown and ten podcast invitations declined

During lockdown, after long stretches without seeing people, Caspar started getting severely socially anxious in ordinary settings, including sitting in a car with his best friend, where he could have a panic attack. He still does not know the cause and links it loosely to stress and to Tourette's, OCD and anxiety running in his family. He turned down around ten podcast invitations that year purely out of fear of having a panic attack on tape, and says this episode is the first he had done in a long time.

like my best friend I could be in the car with him and I could basically have a panic attack and it really came out…

Caspar Lee · 45:00

10 podcasts this year and I've said no to every single one and because I was like What if I have a panic attack while…

Caspar Lee · 46:30
Story1:08:30

How a creator cap table became a $20m venture fund

Founders started approaching Caspar as an investor because they wanted a creator on the cap table. He ran deals past Sasha Kaletsky, then at Harvard Business School, who rejected most and asked to co-invest in the good ones — and discovered founders would take creator money when they could raise from anywhere. They built a collective of creators, musicians and actors, invested in about seven companies, and one, the gaming platform Faceit, merged and eventually sold at 1.5 billion dollars, returning everything. Sasha, then at Bridgepoint, raised the fund off that record: a 10 million dollar target became 20 million.

what about if we put together a collective of creators and we all start investing together

Caspar Lee · 1:10:00

we also had an accident a company called faceit uh which is a gaming platform

Caspar Lee · 1:10:30

Takeaway· 3

Takeaway27:30

Enjoying the work does not make you immune to burnout

Caspar argues burnout is universal rather than creator-specific, but that creators face a job with almost no boundaries and no off switch. Referencing Grace Beverly, he says that however much you love the work, doing enough of it without breaks or structure burns you out. He pushed through until 2019, then told himself to take a break. What made that survivable was having a life outside YouTube he was equally excited to wake up for, which is what he now advises creators to build.

no matter how much you enjoy uh what you're doing um and in the beginning if you do it enough uh you start to you…

Caspar Lee · 28:00

I have a life outside of YouTube that I I can get up every day and I'm just as excited about as I was making…

Caspar Lee · 28:30
Takeaway35:00

He felt more accomplished at 5 subscribers a day than at the peak

Asked to plot his contentment across the years, Caspar describes being extremely happy early on gaining five subscribers a day, elated as things exploded, and then, at the height of it, feeling like he was achieving less than he had at the beginning. He puts it down to comparison with the successful people around him, adaptation, and added pressure, plus the tendency to fixate on the one negative comment among ninety-nine positive ones.

even at like the height of it I probably felt like I was achieving less than than I felt when I was getting five subscribers…

Caspar Lee · 35:30

you definitely get used to whatever it is that you achieve in life

Caspar Lee · 36:30
Takeaway1:23:30

Beat procrastination by making someone else disappointed

Caspar calls himself a procrastinator and a people pleaser, and uses the second to fix the first. His rule is to arrange things so another person will be let down if he does not show up — a personal trainer session gets him to the gym in a way self-discipline does not, and to wake early he books something early that he has to attend. He extends this to why solo creators struggle: working in silos with no team means nobody is holding you to account.

the answer is to make sure someone else is going to be disappointed if you don't do it

Caspar Lee · 1:23:30

if I want to wake up early and I'm like I procrast I don't like doing that I'll set something really early that I have…

Caspar Lee · 1:24:00