DDeep Dive with Ali Abdaal
← All episodes
Grace Beverley18 August 2022

How To Build A Multi-Million Dollar Empire In Your 20s - Grace Beverley

4Frameworks
18Insights

Frameworks in this episode

Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Myth Buster· 1

Myth Buster1:21:00

There is no such thing as fully sustainable fashion

Grace calls sustainable fashion close to an oxymoron: the industry is one of the most polluting in the world, and the problem is consumption volume rather than people clothing themselves. She maps four routes to more sustainable fashion — rental, pre-owned, sustainable fabrics and small business — and rules out rental and pre-owned for activewear on practical grounds. She also notes that using a recycled fabric alone means nothing without transparency on production, packaging, dyeing and sampling.

i don't think you can have fully sustainable fashion i think that's really important to acknowledge

Grace Beverley · 1:22:00

fashion as a whole is one of the most polluting industries in the world

Grace Beverley · 1:21:30

Hot Take· 2

Hot Take00:00

The passion myth: you can love your work and still not skip out the door

Grace argues the 'find your passion and never work a day' framing has been mis-sold. Most people have an obligation to make money, and attaching obligation to anything you love introduces an element of chore. The damage is second-order: when the promise fails, people feel ungrateful and assume they are doing life wrong, which produces anxiety on top of ordinary bad days.

whenever you attach obligation to anything you love there's always going to be an element of it feeling like a chore

Grace Beverley · 00:00

you can love what you do and feel incredibly privileged to do what you do and still not wake up every morning and be like…

Grace Beverley · 00:00
Hot Take1:57:30

Working on your passion hides your burnout

Grace's counterpoint to 'do what you love': passion makes burnout harder to detect, because the necessity is internal as well as external — you believe in it, you put money into it, and you exert yourself far more. She compares it to working for hours and only noticing when you look up and your brain is zapped. Her conclusion is that people building a business or side hustle they love are also allowed to feel burnt out, and giving herself that permission has been a long learning curve.

we don't talk about how exhausting working on something you're passionate about can be because you exert yourself that much more

Grace Beverley · 1:58:00

Explainer· 6

Explainer15:00

Why side hustle culture is both real and toxically marketed

Grace refuses the binary. She built her income through babysitting, music tutoring and then Instagram products, and says side hustles are a genuinely effective route to money outside a main job, particularly now the barriers to starting an online business have collapsed. What she rejects is the marketing — the framing that relaxing in the evening is why you don't own a house — and the tie it creates between productivity, self-worth and monetising every moment.

i can't sit here and say like oh no cyclops is really toxic i think that it's marketed very toxically

Grace Beverley · 16:30

the online space is has hugely democratized starting a business in the way that the barriers to entry to starting a business are way way…

Grace Beverley · 17:00
Explainer18:00

Contextualising privilege without pretending it explains everything

Grace says she contextualises her advantages to the point of what she calls virtue signalling — a whole chapter of the book on it — because she cannot be unborn. She lists timing on social media, going to Oxford, and being white, slim and able-bodied as real accelerants, while also insisting the work was real: three uploads a week, content that had to be entertaining, informative and planned. Her line is that the whole conversation must be included, not one side of it.

what i can do is fiercely contextualize so that i'm not saying actually you over there the only reason you're not in my position is…

Grace Beverley · 18:30
Explainer42:30

The creator career has a ten-year window — build the assets early

About a month after the money started, Grace began asking how to make it last. She notes her financial adviser covers media and sport together because both carry a maximum ten-year earning window. Her worry was concrete: peers who became lawyers or bankers would be making partner fifteen years later, so if she hadn't converted the influencer earnings into investments and businesses by then, she'd be exposed. She invested the PDF profits into Shreddy and Tala.

you have a maximum 10-year career window and that's a huge privilege in certain ways

Grace Beverley · 43:30
Explainer1:00:00

Why Shreddy killed its own PDF business model

The sequence was PDFs, physical products nine months later, an app a year and a half after that. Grace forecast the PDF model dying within a year — airdroppable, screenshot-able, expensive against subscription prices, static and impossible to update without customers expecting the new version free. The app also solved a product problem: customers said they couldn't stick to a guide built around one training style, so Shreddy generates a plan from stated preferences and goals.

the concept behind shreddy was that we don't believe you should do workouts you hate to get results you love

Grace Beverley · 1:03:00

you're never going to stick to something you hate you might stick to it for eight weeks but you're not going to have any lasting…

Grace Beverley · 1:03:30
Explainer1:36:00

Working Hard, Hardly Working: dissolving the productivity vs self-care binary

Grace began the book at the start of the pandemic, when online discourse had split into team productivity (hustle, sleep when you're dead, girlboss culture) and team self-care (quit the job, run the bath), with nothing in between and abuse flowing both ways. The book's aim is a productivity blueprint that doesn't deny the need for rest, built for a generation dealing with social media, the 24-hour news cycle and house prices — rather than advice written for the 2000s office.

the whole idea is to create a productivity blueprint that doesn't completely negate the idea that we actually need rest or relaxation or sleep

Grace Beverley · 1:38:00

we all need productivity and we all need self-care

Grace Beverley · 1:37:30
Explainer1:55:00

Mini burnout: why your brain never gets full respite

Grace distinguishes clinical burnout — a medical term, debilitating, gets you signed off work — from what she calls mini burnout, which she thinks is now widespread. The mechanism is that work no longer stops: you don't leave it at the office, and social media supplies a continuous stream of competitors, better content and more successful peers. She believes she has been slightly burnt out for years and only noticed when she slowed the social media work down.

if you're swiping through tick tock every night before bed your brain is not going to rest in the same way and you're fatiguing yourself

Grace Beverley · 1:56:30

work doesn't just look like work emails just aren't just on a computer your office isn't just on an office

Grace Beverley · 1:56:30

Story· 5

Story02:30

Chorister at nine: where the busyness compulsion started

Grace traces her obsession with being busy to auditioning for Salisbury Cathedral choir at eight and joining at nine — two hours of rehearsal before school, four to five hours after, weekend services, no school holidays, roughly twenty hours on top of schoolwork. She was later a music scholar, went to the Royal Academy of Music alongside secondary school, and took a choral scholarship to Oxford, which she gave up after first year to run her business.

my like self-worth is entirely like kind of probably like related to my like productivity slash how busy i am i know it's wrong it's…

Grace Beverley · 03:00
Story24:00

The suspension email that produced a £15k Boxing Day

An email from the Oxford bursar said her student finance hadn't arrived and she'd be expelled within a month. That night she wrote a thirty-five-pound eight-week workout guide until 5am, having previously sold a few hundred five-pound recipe PDFs. She launched it on 26 December with a restricted-supply mechanic. Sitting at the theatre with her family on Boxing Day she checked the dashboard: roughly fifteen thousand pounds in a day, against an IBM internship salary of eighteen thousand a year.

i remember on the day i checked the like dashboard and it was i think i'd made like 15 grand that day and i was…

Grace Beverley · 25:30

my salary at ibm for that internship was 18 grand it's a school leaver scheme anyone can apply it's called the future scheme and i…

Grace Beverley · 26:30
Story32:30

Gossip forums, people-pleasing and learning not to scratch the itch

Grace describes checking gossip forums obsessively during her first years at university, initially as content research — the same instinct that made her study thumbnails and formats — before recognising that improving content by changing her entire personality was a dead end. She frames the core incompatibility as being a people pleaser broadcasting to millions, where even twenty percent disliking you is two hundred thousand people.

being a people-pleaser whilst broadcasting to millions of people quite incompatible

Grace Beverley · 34:00

i think also as you mature you realize not to scratch itches that are going to hurt you

Grace Beverley · 35:30
Story58:30

Winding down a multi-million-pound influencer career on 'do less better'

Grace cites 'do less better' as one of her core mottos in business and in life. The safest and most lucrative path would have been to keep posting while building Tala, but she stopped content around her finals, moved to London, and never went back — writing off deposits already paid to videographers and a large amount of planned work. Her framing: no one expects an eighteen-year-old's career choice to be permanent, hers was just more public.

one of my biggest mottos that i think in business and in life that i do not listen to but absolutely try to every day…

Grace Beverley · 58:30

is the end goal money or is the end goal happiness and fulfillment

Grace Beverley · 54:00
Story1:14:00

Baptism of fire: the t-shirt and the sports bra that looked like a sock

Grace had no buying experience and assumed a plain oversized black t-shirt would be self-explanatory. Samples came back with a tight body and enormous sleeves; the sports bra repeatedly arrived looking like a sock. Tala was conceptualised at the end of second year and didn't launch until May of third year, largely because of sampling. Today the business runs two to three hours of fit sessions every Wednesday with fit models across sizes — she notes she was originally doing fit comments on her own non-average proportions.

sports bra was absolutely impossible i just couldn't understand why every time it came it looked like a sock

Grace Beverley · 1:15:30

i can't do things to my proportions we have to do like this because you can't base an entire company based on that

Grace Beverley · 1:17:30

Q&A· 1

Q&A1:12:30

What it actually takes to start a clothing brand today

Asked for the practical steps, Grace is blunt that it is an enormous faff requiring real capital, unlike digital products with no marginal cost. You pay for samples before stock; payment terms with factories vary and often mean fifty percent up front and fifty a set period after it leaves the factory, worse if your business has no credit history. Trade shows are the route to fabrics and fits. Most people fund it from savings or a loan.

it is a huge faff right an enormous faff you also have to have money to put into it

Grace Beverley · 1:13:00

Tool· 1

Tool2:00:00

Grace's reading list — fiction as the actual off switch

Grace says reading novels is one of her main ways of relaxing, specifically because fiction stops you concentrating on anything else — explicitly not non-fiction, and not her own book. Her recommendations include Educated, The Nightingale, Small Great Things, The Storyteller, I Am Pilgrim, Eleanor Oliphant Is Completely Fine, The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo, Daisy Jones and the Six, The Flatshare, and thrillers Sharp Objects and Behind Closed Doors. Non-fiction picks: Atomic Habits, Black Box Thinking, Rework, Start With Why, The Working Woman's Handbook, and Trick Mirror.

reading is one of the biggest ways i relax and not non-fiction books don't buy my book it's fiction books

Grace Beverley · 2:00:00

finding those things that take you completely away from the reality of like work and life and everything i think is so important

Grace Beverley · 2:00:00

Takeaway· 2

Takeaway07:30

Keep one passion unmonetised — music stayed off the P&L

Music was Grace's biggest passion and she deliberately never turned it into a career, which she credits with preserving her love of it. What she does monetise is the branding and marketing work. She notes she now does almost nothing purely for fun that doesn't make money, calls that inherently problematic, and observes her housemates know she is stressed when she starts playing the piano.

my big passion which probably was music i love more as being a big passion rather than being something something to monetize

Grace Beverley · 08:30
Takeaway45:30

Marginal money stopped buying marginal happiness

Roughly eighteen months to two years into earning heavily, Grace noticed each increase in income wasn't producing a matching increase in happiness. The job's reward system was incompatible with her personality as a people pleaser, and the part she genuinely enjoyed — product strategy, marketing angles, telling activewear brands what her audience actually wanted — was the part she wasn't allowed to do. She now works in an office five days a week for far less money and says she is far happier.

with each marginal breakthrough in how much money i was making it wasn't bringing me marginal happiness

Grace Beverley · 45:30

i don't want to have to care about what people think in order to make my money

Grace Beverley · 46:00