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Max Fosh29 September 2022

The Highs And Lows Of Being A Viral Sensation - Max Fosh

5Frameworks
17Insights

Frameworks in this episode

Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Myth Buster· 1

Myth Buster1:43:30

"YouTube is too saturated" is absolute rubbish

Asked for advice to aspiring creators, Max's answer is to get good at making videos rather than hunting hacks and cheats — the question is whether you can provide value, make someone laugh, educate or entertain them, and the only way to get there is by making videos. He rejects outright the claim that YouTube is saturated or that a career can't start now, arguing that people currently sitting on 10 subscribers will have 10 million within three years. Ali maps it to his course framework of get going, get good, get smart — niche, thumbnails and retention belong at level three, not level one.

there are people now with 10 subscribers who will have 10 million subscribers in 3 years time.

Max Fosh · 1:44:00

Yes, get good at making videos.

Max Fosh · 1:43:00

Hot Take· 1

Hot Take51:30

The algorithm is just people

Max is part of a creator Discord that meets every Thursday for ninety minutes, each member bringing a topic — roasting thumbnails, roasting titles, content ideas. The single perspective shift he credits it with is understanding that the algorithm is just people. When creators say the algorithm hates them or killed their video, his response is that it was killed because people weren't watching or weren't watching to the end, and YouTube inferred the audience wouldn't like it. He notes he'll happily go deep on CTR and average view duration, but the causal chain runs through viewers, not the machine.

the algorithm is just people

Max Fosh · 51:30

No, it's been killed because people aren't watching it or people don't want to watch it to the end.

Max Fosh · 51:30

Explainer· 7

Explainer33:00

Why the Fashion Week video worked — and the pain behind the pose

Max credits Zac's storytelling and edit above all, plus the choice of target: the victim of the prank was the fashion industry, a communal shared victim nobody feels sorry for. He admits he genuinely doesn't know why it performed as it did. Behind the camera he was terrified — a rule-following student to whom being cheeky was alien — and a safety pin holding the costume together had come undone and lodged in his back, so the expressions of disdain were pain. Watching the numbers climb afterwards he compares to a lab rat clicking for food, refreshing YouTube Studio every two minutes.

The storytelling is phenomenal from Zack.

Max Fosh · 33:00

And that's a I think that's a communal shared victim that people kind of don't feel too sorry about.

Max Fosh · 33:00
Explainer55:30

How the money actually works at 1.4 million subscribers

Max breaks down his income: ad revenue fluctuating around £10–20k a month since November 2021, almost all of which goes to his wage, Aziz's wage and production costs — which are climbing as videos get more ambitious, including a treasure hunt for a $100,000 fish. Brand deals form the rest, with rates fluctuating based on the average performance of the last five videos. Stand-up adds little, because so many parties take a slice. He's actively diversifying, having launched The Silly Company, on the logic that being the silly guy doesn't preclude building a business.

ad revenue kind of changes quite a lot, but that's kind of like 10 to 20 grand a month.

Max Fosh · 55:30

there's currently a treasure hunt on to find a $100,000 fish.

Max Fosh · 56:00
Explainer1:09:30

The two mountains — and Max admitting he's on the first

Ali summarises David Brooks' The Second Mountain: the first mountain is success, status, accolades and freedom; you leave it either by summiting and finding it hollow, by bereavement, or by a health scare. The second mountain is service, commitment, relationships and community — where joy lives. Max identifies himself squarely on the first, admitting he asked the London Palladium whether he'd be the youngest person ever to do a stand-up special there, and calling that a toxic way to think. He notes he doesn't even know who he wants to say the accolades to. Ali's open question is how to short-circuit the status phase and move earlier.

you realize there is a second mountain and that's the second mountain which is more about service it's more about joy

Ali Abdaal · 1:10:00

but I think I am all still very much accolade driven at the moment which I don't know whether that's a positive or a negative…

Max Fosh · 1:09:30
Explainer1:12:30

Finite vs infinite games applied to a creator career

Ali frames the choice through Finite and Infinite Games: finite games have an ending and a scoreboard (a million-subscriber plaque, Fortnite); infinite games are played to keep playing (Minecraft). If you already have the infinite game — doing what you love and making a living from it — the only coherent goal is continuing to do it. He reframes his own goals around 30-year sustainability rather than revenue, noting that short-term money decisions tend to be finite-gamey and erode the content. Max earlier offered a related anecdote: Frank Ocean's answer to how he protects his freedom was simply 'I just make less money.'

there are some games that are finite games that have an ending and there are some games that are infinite games where the objective where…

Ali Abdaal · 1:12:30

So why don't I set my goals to be like how do I make sure this is sustainable over a 30 year time horizon

Ali Abdaal · 1:13:30
Explainer1:26:00

Guess Whom: engineering the feeling of a first-time joke

Max explains that comedy is at its best when the audience believes it's the first time the comedian has ever said a line, which is why audience interaction works. He facilitates that feeling deliberately: for interactive bits he chooses questions with only three or four possible answers, and keeps a tested response ready for each. In his Palladium show he plays 'Guess Whom' — asking the room to keep hands up if they've ever called their parents mummy or daddy, then pretending more posh hands are up on the right than the left, tying it to the political climate. The joke is pre-written but reads as live.

comedy is at its best when the audience feels like it's the first time the comedian has ever said that.

Max Fosh · 1:26:00

it always goes down really well because as a joke it's not that funny, but it's just it feels like it's the first time I've…

Max Fosh · 1:27:30
Explainer1:29:30

Stand-up economics: 60% gone before you turn the mic on

Max lays out the cut structure: producers take 12.5–20% of takings, an agent 10–15%, and the venue typically 30–40% — so roughly 60% is gone before the microphone is on, before director and PR costs. At the Edinburgh Fringe he sold out a 75-seat venue for the whole month, around 2,000 tickets over 30 days, after six months writing the show — and took home about £2,500. Accommodation alone runs £1,000–1,500 for a box room. He argues real money only starts at consistent 400–500 seat venues, and that the shows selling out now are the ones with social platforms.

before you even turn the microphone on, you're losing 60% to like costs.

Max Fosh · 1:30:00

we sold every ticket um for for the run which is about 2,000 tickets over 30 days.

Max Fosh · 1:30:30
Explainer1:33:30

Book advances, royalties and the bestseller-list machinery

Ali explains publishing economics: a typical UK first-time advance of around £10–20k, paid in four instalments across roughly four years (signing, manuscript, hardback, paperback), earned back against royalties that start near 7.5% and step up. On a £15 book the author makes roughly a pound. Most books never earn out, and the publisher absorbs that. He notes the New York Times list weights sampled physical sales in specific Walmarts far above Amazon pre-orders, precisely to discount online audiences, and that academics need fewer sales than YouTubers to qualify. Max reports the same dynamic in comedy: as an audience-holding Fringe debutant he was slated by reviewers.

And if you're James Clear and you've sold 12 million copies, now you're winning.

Ali Abdaal · 1:35:00

These days anyone can publish anything on Amazon and it's trivial. And so, like what is the point of a publisher?

Ali Abdaal · 1:36:30

Story· 5

Story04:30

The week-long internship that killed his corporate ambition

At 17, via a nepotistic connection through his father's insurance work, Max spent a week observing at a City trading firm. The experience — stale banter about a colleague called Greg, being sent to fetch the pies, after-work pints — convinced him the thing everyone told him was the pinnacle was not it. After a confrontation about not concentrating, he was given real work writing an overnight markets newsletter, getting in at 3am for an email he assumes went straight to junk. He never worked a corporate job again and switched his university course from economics and finance to English literature within months.

I sat there for a week and I thought, "Is this it?

Max Fosh · 05:00

I want something that was much more creatively fulfilling.

Max Fosh · 06:00
Story06:00

Blagging his way into an English degree with no A-level

Wanting out of economics and finance, Max walked into the English school and asked to do their degree. Told he could not be offered a place without an English A-level, he improvised an offer: if he got a 2:1 in his first year of economics, that would prove he was a good student and would be of value to their school. The head of English, taken aback, agreed. He got the 2:1 and transferred — his first recognition that he was good at blagging. He then did badly at English literature, but it put him around more creative work.

But what if I get a 2:1 in my first year in economics? That surely proves that I'm a good student.

Max Fosh · 06:30
Story10:00

Three listeners, two of whom he'd texted the link to

Max describes student radio as a cupboard with foam on the walls, a broken microphone, and students who think they're Nick Grimshaw. At Newcastle the broadcast output frequently didn't work, so often nobody was listening at all. Two or three shows in, he found a listener counter, logged on and saw three listeners — two of whom he personally knew because he'd sent them the link. After a year with no progression he moved to Radio Tyneside hospital radio, unpaid, starting on 2am-to-4am shifts across six hospitals and working up to the breakfast show over three years.

And I logged on and I saw there were three people listening. And I knew that two I knew two of those people cuz I'd…

Max Fosh · 10:30

I was brought up not on the fact of the title and the content of the song broadcast on hospital radio, but more the fact…

Max Fosh · 13:00
Story30:00

London Fashion Week: 1,800 to 80,000 subscribers in four days

After months of working with Zac Allsop, Max was dressed in Primark maternity trousers, jail shoes Zac had been given, a pinned rug and parcel packaging worn as a ruff, and taken to London Fashion Week. Coco triggered a camera flash and shouted his name; photographers ran over, Zac posed as his manager, and they sent the resulting photos to shows the next day pitching a hot new model. They got into shows and after-parties. Max told his dad he'd be happy with a thousand subscribers. The video went stratospheric — Zac's channel went 30,000 to 300,000 in five days.

And then Zack pretended to be my manager.

Max Fosh · 31:00

I went from 1,800 subscribers to 80,000 subscribers in about 4 days.

Max Fosh · 32:00
Story40:30

Running for London Mayor because the entry bar was two things

The BBC published the candidate list along with the requirements to run, and Max realised he only needed two: a £10,000 deposit and two signatures from registered voters in each of London's boroughs — 66 signatures. He calculated that six or seven videos would earn the money back. Then he realised he needed a story, and was handed one in Laurence Fox, a fellow Harrow alumnus with no political experience and £5 million of backing — an antagonist. His headline policy was 'don't vote for me', the manifesto written in a pub, aimed at getting young people to vote for anybody.

So, you just need a £10,000 deposit and to get two signatures from each borough of registered voters.

Max Fosh · 41:00

My number one um my number one policy point was don't vote for me.

Max Fosh · 43:00

Takeaway· 3

Takeaway53:00

Hiring one person caused the exponential spike

Max took two and a half years to go from 80,000 to 400,000 subscribers. In November 2021 he hired Aziz as producer-editor, and ten months later sat at 1.4 million — a visible spike on Social Blade roughly two weeks after the hire. He attributes it less to capacity than to having someone to ask 'is this a good idea' and to share the successes and failures with. Ali reports an identical pattern: hiring his first editor Christian in late 2019 freed him to make more videos and revenue skyrocketed. Max admits he spent nine months searching, expecting a perfect clone of himself.

And in November 2021 I hired Aziz and from November 2021 to now, which we are in September 2022, so 10 months, we're on 1.4…

Max Fosh · 53:00

just genuinely just sharing the the successes and the failures with somebody else was so much like more enjoyable than um like anything I'd done…

Max Fosh · 53:30
Takeaway58:30

The goalposts move daily — why quantitative goals are a trap

Max says hitting a million subscribers taught him that chasing quantitative goals is dangerous: you hit the number, sigh, and ask now what. He and Aziz set a 2022 goal of 800,000 from a base of 500,000; they're at 1.4 million and he hasn't paused to acknowledge it — he's already asking whether they can hit 2 million. He traces it to self-esteem and wanting to be liked, and admits he can't tell whether he's excited to make a video or excited that it will perform. Ali counters with journaling monthly and only setting goals inside his own control, like posting cadence.

I realized very quickly when I hit million subscribers that chasing like quantitative goals is a very dangerous game

Max Fosh · 58:30

We're now on 1.4 million and we haven't taken a step back or I haven't taken a step back to think like, okay, it's fine.

Max Fosh · 1:05:00
Takeaway1:40:00

"I don't think I do enough to combat burnout"

Max has burnt out several times, worst during lockdown when it showed up physically as depression. He refuses to perform the standard answer about journaling and morning runs, saying he only knows the right thing to say because he's listened to too many podcasts. He doesn't prioritise anti-burnout practices because he can't see their objective value, so doesn't judge them worth the time. Even a two-week post-Fringe holiday failed: he thought about the channel throughout. He was happiest during the Fringe itself, because he could compartmentalise and just do the show. Ali agrees time off is overrated and works a few hours on holiday to clear his system.

And I don't think I do enough to combat burnouts.

Max Fosh · 1:40:30

I was just thinking about the channel the whole time.

Max Fosh · 1:42:00