Ryan Holiday21 December 2023

You’re Not Lazy: How To Make Discipline Easy - Ryan Holiday

4Frameworks

14Insights

Episode overview

Ali Abdaal and Ryan Holiday discuss why durable creative work depends more on consistent practices, constraints, and commitment than on optimizing tools. They examine how to balance discipline with flexibility, focus on controllable processes rather than external outcomes, and make demanding work more energizing through play, autonomy, and purpose. The conversation also connects these ideas to writing, parenting, relationships, exercise, career risk, and the long-term marketing of books.

Key ideas

Define the destination, translate it into repeatable weekly actions, schedule those actions, and then do them consistently.
Tools provide marginal gains; repeatedly switching systems is often procrastination, while choosing a workable system and sticking with it builds mastery.
Trust in a process grows through experience: repeated projects teach creators to tolerate messy drafts, doubt, false breakthroughs, and revision.
Discipline should evolve from rigid routines into flexible practices that survive family demands and life's complexity without becoming excuses for complacency.
Focus on controllable inputs and return quickly to the next piece of work instead of attaching identity to views, praise, sales, or bestseller lists.
Making work feel better through play, autonomy, supportive people, and reframing “have to” as “get to” can increase energy and persistence.
Rest and recovery are valuable when intentional, but honest self-examination is needed to distinguish restoration from avoidance of difficult work.
Creative success is a long game: making the work and helping it reach people are separate marathons, and lasting relevance matters more than launch-week rankings.

Transcript available · source text is retained privately and is not published

Frameworks in this episode

Productivity3 steps

Goal to Calendar in Three Steps

Compress most productivity advice into: pick the goal, set the weekly action, calendar it

Read →

Self-Mastery4 steps

Higher Self vs Lower Self Test

Before you rest or quit, ask whether it is recovery or avoidance

Read →

Peak Performance4 steps

Play, Power, People: The Three Energizers

Make hard work energising by adding play, agency and connection

Read →

Self-Mastery5 steps

The Odyssey Plan

Draft three divergent five-year lives to find the goal worth chasing

Read →

People & resources mentioned

Attributed to the moment in the episode. Timestamps are approximate.

People · 22

Ali AbdaalCoinedthe ongoing podcast where every week I get the chance to sit down with inspiring authors, entrepreneurs, creators, and other inspiring people.
“my book is about to come out it's called Feelgood productivity”
▶ Watch at ~1:00approx.
Lin-Manuel MirandaMentionsLyn Manuel Miranda was talking about how he had a kid right as Hamilton blew up
“Lyn Manuel Miranda was talking about how he had a kid right as Hamilton blew up”
▶ Watch at ~11:00approx.
Daniel H. PinkMentionsmentioned
“or like drive by Dan pink and I'm like oh it's so good”
▶ Watch at ~22:30approx.
Ernest HemingwayMentionsmentioned
“there's a Hemingway quote and he says I have a print of it in my office”
▶ Watch at ~25:30approx.
Warren BuffettRecommendsthe thing that Warren Buffett and basically everyone who sensible in the space recommends
“the thing that Warren Buffett and basically everyone who's sensible in the space recommends which is to invest in Broad stock market index funds”
▶ Watch at ~30:00approx.
Julian HearnMentionswe have the founder of huel Julian Hearn who was on the very first season of the podcast
“I actually did an interview with the founder of hu Julian Hearn”
▶ Watch at ~30:00approx.
Andrew HubermanMentionsmentioned
“hubman says like four times versus five times and like 24-minute protocol versus 12-minute protocol”
▶ Watch at ~33:30approx.
Tom BradyMentionsmentioned
“like Tom Brady talking about whether you know how much is enough enough”
▶ Watch at ~37:30approx.
Ryan HolidayMentionsfor me that's writing like writing the books is the main thing
“Ryan holiday has a note card system”
▶ Watch at ~39:30approx.
SenecaMentionsmentioned
“one of my favorite quotes from Sena he says the one thing all fools have in common is that they're always getting ready to start”
▶ Watch at ~43:00approx.
Tim FerrissMentionsramit sethi or tim ferriss guy kawasaki a lot of these guys i just helped promote them and connect with them really early on
“Tim fah says batching is good so I'm going to batch it”
▶ Watch at ~44:00approx.
Roger FedererMentionsmentioned
“Roger fedro probably isn't feeling play when he's in the Wimbledon fight final because the stakes are too high”
▶ Watch at ~49:00approx.
Seth GodinMentionshe's still connected energized like seems Fully Alive with like what he's doing
“I think Seth gon has a blog post about this that I remembered at the time”
▶ Watch at ~50:30approx.
Steven PressfieldMentionsmentioned
“stepen pressfield says in between is the resistance”
▶ Watch at ~54:00approx.
Marcus AureliusMentionswhat marus was doing in his meditations was writing down things
“what marus was doing in his meditations was writing down things”
▶ Watch at ~1:09:00approx.
Dr. Becky KennedyMentionsthis parenting expert name is Dr Becky Kennedy
“I just read this great book by this parenting expert name is Dr Becky Kennedy”
▶ Watch at ~1:10:30approx.
Alfie KohnMentionsmentioned
“I've just read this sick unconditional parenting Alfie go”
▶ Watch at ~1:14:00approx.
Derren BrownMentionshe's a magician
“notes from a fellow traveler by Darren Brown he's a magician”
▶ Watch at ~1:15:30approx.
James ClearMentionshe had this popular newsletter
“I like James second I think he's a great writer and I think Atomic abits is actually a very good book”
▶ Watch at ~1:27:30approx.
Tim FerrissUsesramit sethi or tim ferriss guy kawasaki a lot of these guys i just helped promote them and connect with them really early on
“I find the the Tim FIS fear setting exercise to be just really helpful”
▶ Watch at ~1:52:30approx.
Bill BurnettMentionssome Stanford professors
“designing your life by Bill Bernett is and this other guy who's like some Stanford professors”
▶ Watch at ~1:59:30approx.
Viktor FranklMentionsmentioned
“there's that quote from Victor Frankl where he's you know in aitz”
▶ Watch at ~2:03:30approx.

Resources · 35

Feel-Good ProductivityCoinedbook · Ali Abdaal
“my book is about to come out it's called Feelgood productivity how to do more what matters to you”
▶ Watch at ~1:00approx.
The 48 Laws of PowerMentionsbook · Robert Greene
“I guess in the 48 Laws of Power the final law which I think a lot of people Miss is assume formlessness”
▶ Watch at ~7:00approx.
HamiltonMentionsother · Lin-Manuel Miranda
“Lyn Manuel Miranda was talking about how he had a kid right as Hamilton blew up”
▶ Watch at ~11:00approx.
YouTubeUseswebsite · Google
“I can see it in YouTube studio if I go on”
▶ Watch at ~14:00approx.
YouTube StudioUsessoftware · YouTube
“I can see it in YouTube studio if I go on”
▶ Watch at ~14:00approx.
New York Times Best Seller listMentionsother · The New York Times
“currently I have an unhealthy attachment to the New York Times bestseller list”
▶ Watch at ~19:30approx.
Ego Is the EnemyCoinedbook · Ryan Holiday
“what became ego as the enemy”
▶ Watch at ~20:00approx.
DriveMentionsbook · Daniel H. Pink
“or like drive by Dan pink and I'm like oh it's so good”
▶ Watch at ~22:30approx.
HuelUsesproduct · Julian Hearn
“I've personally been using heel regularly since 2017”
▶ Watch at ~28:30approx.
Huel Black EditionUsesproduct · Huel
“there is heel black edition which is my personal favorite because it's really tasty and it's high protein”
▶ Watch at ~29:00approx.
HuelRecommendsproduct · Julian Hearn
“heel is a great way to make sure that you at least have the basics covered”
▶ Watch at ~29:30approx.
Deep DiveCoinedpodcast · Ali Abdaal
“that's in season one of the Deep dive podcast”
▶ Watch at ~30:00approx.
Trading 212Usessoftware · Trading 212
“I personally use trading 212 to manage a portion of my portfolio”
▶ Watch at ~30:30approx.
Trading 212Recommendssoftware · Trading 212
“trading 212 is a fantastic app that lets you invest in stocks and shares and funds in a commission-free fashion”
▶ Watch at ~30:30approx.
Google DocsMentionssoftware · Google
“if like writing in scrier is just a little bit nicer than writing in a Google doc”
▶ Watch at ~32:00approx.
ScrivenerMentionssoftware · Literature & Latte
“if like writing in scrier is just a little bit nicer than writing in a Google doc”
▶ Watch at ~32:00approx.
NotionMentionssoftware · Notion Labs
“now notion templates are all the all the rage”
▶ Watch at ~38:30approx.
WimbledonMentionsevent
“Roger fedro probably isn't feeling play when he's in the Wimbledon fight final”
▶ Watch at ~49:00approx.
KajabiRecommendssoftware · Kajabi
“it's one of the best places for creators and entrepreneurs to build a sustainable business”
▶ Watch at ~56:30approx.
Part-Time YouTuber FoundationsCoinedcourse · Ali Abdaal
“our $1 part-time YouTuber foundations to help people start off on their YouTube Journey”
▶ Watch at ~57:30approx.
Part-Time YouTuber AcceleratorCoinedcourse · Ali Abdaal
“the part-time YouTuber accelerator which gives you access to me and my team”
▶ Watch at ~57:30approx.
KajabiUsessoftware · Kajabi
“we've been using kajabi to host all of our online courses since the start of 2023”
▶ Watch at ~57:30approx.
Kajabi Hero LiveMentionsevent · Kajabi
“people paid for the pretty expensive tickets to watch this keynote at the kajabi hero live event”
▶ Watch at ~58:00approx.
Austin, TexasMentionsplace
“back in May 2023 I did a keynote at a kajabi in real life kajabi Heroes Event in Austin Texas”
▶ Watch at ~58:00approx.
Daily DadCoinednewsletter · Ryan Holiday
“the reason I decided to do the daily dad was that writing the daily stoic made me better as a person”
▶ Watch at ~1:08:30approx.
The Daily StoicCoinedbook · Ryan Holiday and Stephen Hanselman
“the process of writing the daily stoic book and then writing the daily sto every day now for seven years”
▶ Watch at ~1:09:00approx.
MeditationsMentionsbook · Marcus Aurelius
“what marus was doing in his meditations was writing down things”
▶ Watch at ~1:09:00approx.
Good InsideMentionsbook · Becky Kennedy
“I just read this great book by this parenting expert name is Dr Becky Kennedy”
▶ Watch at ~1:10:30approx.
Unconditional ParentingMentionsbook · Alfie Kohn
“I've just read this sick unconditional parenting Alfie go”
▶ Watch at ~1:14:00approx.
HappyRecommendsbook · Derren Brown
“his book happy is very good basically all about stoicism”
▶ Watch at ~1:15:30approx.
Atomic HabitsRecommendsbook · James Clear
“I think Atomic abits is actually a very good book”
▶ Watch at ~1:27:30approx.
Daily Stoic emailCoinednewsletter · Ryan Holiday
“I've been doing the daily stoky maill every day for seven years”
▶ Watch at ~1:40:30approx.
The 4-Hour WorkweekMentionsbook · Tim Ferriss
“I remember reading that book when I was like 17”
▶ Watch at ~1:42:30approx.
AmazonMentionscompany · Jeff Bezos
“when Jeff Bezos starts Amazon he has some idea that it could be successful”
▶ Watch at ~1:55:00approx.
The Odyssey PlanUsesother · Bill Burnett and Dave Evans
“I personally enjoy like doing that exercise every year”
▶ Watch at ~2:00:00approx.

Spot an error or want something removed? Request a correction or removal.

Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Myth Buster· 3

Myth Buster17:30

Basking in a win is a hidden productivity loss

Ryan observes that when something succeeds you can lose a day or more refreshing and soaking in it, which is a loss disguised as a reward. If the result had gone badly you would work hard to detach from it, yet when it goes well you skip that logic and just marinate. The real punishment is energy not spent making the next thing.

Success can cost you a day of basking and refreshing rather than creating
You would rationally detach from bad news but rarely detach from good news
The ship has sailed once you publish; timing worry belonged before release
The real cost is energy not spent on the next thing or genuine rest
If you are going to waste a day, take the day off rather than refresh your feed

“your reward for succeeding is a loss in productivity because you're just soaking in this thing that's really not in your control”
Ryan Holiday · 18:00

“if you're going to waste a day go waste a day don't waste a day refreshing your Twitter feed”
Ryan Holiday · 19:00

#process#outcome#focus#creativity

Myth Buster1:05:00

'I'm doing it all for them' is usually doing it for you

Ryan calls the workaholic's justification insidious: cloaking a selfish choice in selflessness by saying the late nights and flights are for the kids. If you asked the kids, more money would be nowhere on their list. He reframes success as your kids wanting to be with you when they are adults, an investment you can only make now, at real and uncertain cost.

Saying 'I'm doing it for them' can cloak a selfish choice in selflessness
Ask the kids what they want and more money would be nowhere on the list
'Doing it all for the people I never see' is a sad, ironic trap for high achievers
Success is your kids wanting to be with you when they are adults
That investment can only be made now, and the cost is uncertain and uncomfortable

“you're saying you're doing it for them but you're not you're doing it for you”
Ryan Holiday · 1:05:30

“success is your kids wanting to be with you when you're an adult”
Ryan Holiday · 1:06:00

#parenting#work-life#priorities#self-honesty

Myth Buster1:42:00

Passive income mostly isn't passive, but extra income streams buy freedom

Ryan is skeptical of the fully-passive dream: the people you admire are actively engaged in what they do, not living off vending machines. Both agree the real value is having income streams uncorrelated with your time, media, code, IP or investments, which act like a self-made trust fund. That independence is what let Ali go part-time in medicine and let Ryan turn down or negotiate creative work on his own terms.

The idea that you can eventually do nothing and still earn is not how life works
People you admire are actively engaged, not passively running vending machines
Books and IP are a realistic form of income that keeps paying years later
Uncorrelated income streams function like a self-made trust fund
That freedom let Ali leave his day job and let Ryan take creative risks without living paycheck to paycheck

“if I have sort of income streams other than the creative work that I do it's like I gave myself a trust fund”
Ryan Holiday · 1:46:30

#passive-income#freedom#entrepreneurship#money

Hot Take· 2

Hot Take40:00

Amateurs obsess over tools; pros pick a system and stick with it

Ryan Holiday argues that fixating on pens, apps and systems is amateur behaviour, and that tools are not even in the top ten drivers of real output. The professional's move is to pick a workable system and stop switching. Chasing a 9% better tool while relearning everything is profoundly inefficient, and endlessly researching optimisations is itself a sophisticated form of procrastination.

Amateurs are obsessed with tools; the pro picks a system and sticks with it
Tools are not even in Ryan's top ten contributors to his work
The amateur trait is constantly moving on and abandoning what worked
Researching running shoes or sauna protocols is procrastination from running or sitting in the sauna
Obsessing over productivity feels productive but is avoidance of the hard thing

“pick a system and stick with that system”
Ryan Holiday · 00:30

“the irony that obsessing about productivity is a form of procrastination”
Ali Abdaal · 34:00

#productivity#tools#procrastination#systems

Hot Take11:00

Kids are ballast, not baggage

Ryan reframes the fear that children tie you down: they do tie you down, but to reality, tethering you to school times, nap times and non-negotiables that stop you making everything about yourself. He cites Lin-Manuel Miranda declining after-parties during Hamilton's peak because his infant protected his sleep and his performances, arguing kids balance you out rather than weigh you down.

Kids objectively tie you down, but to reality and to non-negotiable structure
They stop you making life all about you and give you something to center on
Lin-Manuel Miranda said no to Hamilton after-parties to protect precarious sleep
Constraints saved him from spinning off the planet at peak success
We treat these commitments as baggage when they are really ballast

“we think these things are going to be baggage it's more like ballast like it balances you out”
Ryan Holiday · 12:00

#parenting#structure#balance#constraints

Explainer· 4

Explainer23:00

You can't trust a process you haven't been through yet

Both hosts push back on 'just trust the process,' noting it is hard to trust a process you have never completed. After going through it once, you learn its rhythms: where you doubt yourself, where it gets exciting, and the 'false fall' moment where it seems over but gets hard again. Familiarity is what finally lets you both trust and enjoy the process.

Trusting the process is insufficient advice before you have lived the process
One full pass teaches you the predictable phases of doubt and excitement
Ryan's Texas 'false fall' analogy: it cools, then gets hot again, like a project's second hard stretch
Like a repeated roller coaster, you learn when to hold on and when to relax
Understanding the process is what makes it trustable and enjoyable

“it's hard to trust a process that you have not been through”
Ryan Holiday · 24:30

#process#creativity#writing#mastery

Explainer1:22:30

Run your own race: comparison is madness

Using running, Ryan describes gassing himself trying to keep pace with a stranger whose start point, goals and even honesty he knows nothing about. He extends this to James Clear's Atomic Habits outselling all his books combined: since it costs him nothing, the healthy response is to know what race you are running. Choosing an obscure niche means a higher floor but a lower ceiling, and expecting otherwise is a recipe for misery.

Comparing your pace to a runner whose start and finish you don't know is madness
Seneca's euthymia: tranquility is staying on your own path, undistracted by crossing paths
James Clear's one book outsold all of Ryan's combined, and it changes Ryan's life not at all
Every choice makes some outcomes possible and others impossible; accept the ceiling you chose
Don't expect figs in winter: expecting outcomes your choice forecloses is stupid and unfair to yourself

“we're all running our own races and you got to have a sense of the race that you are running”
Ryan Holiday · 1:23:00

“the essence of happiness is to not expect figs in Winter”
Ryan Holiday · 1:31:00

#comparison#stoicism#envy#contentment

Explainer1:14:30

We learn as we teach: writing to understand, not to instruct

Ryan says writing Daily Stoic every day for seven years, nearly a million free words, made him a better person because you cannot distill wisdom daily without it entering your bloodstream. He contrasts two postures: teaching as 'I am telling you everything I know,' which inflates the ego, versus 'I am explaining what I am learning as I learn it,' which creates a shared feedback loop and deepens your own understanding.

Marcus Aurelius became Marcus Aurelius by rephrasing and rewriting ideas to himself
Seven years of Daily Stoic emails made Ryan better even if it had earned zero dollars
Teaching as 'I know it all' is egotistical and puffs up the ego
Framing it as 'a fellow traveler' takes the pressure off and makes it feel like play
Articulating and distilling an idea makes you understand it better than learning alone

“we learn as we teach”
Ryan Holiday · 1:14:30

“I am explaining what I am learning as I am learning it”
Ryan Holiday · 1:15:00

#learning#teaching#writing#ego

Explainer2:01:30

Procrastination is an emotional problem, not laziness

Ali reports that the research for his book reframed procrastination as primarily emotional: fear of looking bad, fear of failure and self-doubt spinning stories that you are not good enough. The fix is to cut through the noise and simply start, because objects in motion stay in motion and the mind gets out of the way once you begin. He names overthinking as the single most destructive habit to drop.

Procrastination is primarily an emotional problem, rooted in fear and self-doubt
The mind weaves stories about not being good enough for the task
The blocker is usually getting started, not continuing
Just start: objects in motion tend to stay in motion (Newton's first law)
Overthinking is the destructive habit Ali would tell people to drop for the year

“procrastination is primarily an emotional problem”
Ali Abdaal · 2:01:30

“once we get started the means that we'll just continue going”
Ali Abdaal · 2:02:00

#procrastination#fear#starting#overthinking

Story· 3

Story20:30

Lock in your next project so outcomes stop controlling you

Ryan sold sequels and a four-book series years in advance, which cost him money but bought him focus: because he was already under contract for the next book, he barely cared how the current one performed. He likens it to a comedian who records an hour and is already writing the next one before it airs, insulated from whether the special is a hit.

Selling the next project in advance removes the incentive to obsess over the current one's numbers
The Obstacle Is the Way first hit the bestseller list five years after release, by which point he had written several more books
A comedian is always working on the next hour before the last one airs
Being in a steady rhythm insulates you from others' verdicts on your work
The trade-off is leaving money on the table for creative peace

“by having contracts for the next projects I was just focused on doing the next projects not on how each one did”
Ryan Holiday · 20:30

#writing#process#career#rhythm

Story15:30

The productivity keyword trap and the pull of audience capture

During the pandemic Ali noticed any video with 'productive' in the title outperformed, so he began forcing the word into everything until viewers pushed back and he felt icky about it. He names this as audience capture, becoming a caricature of what your audience first liked. He uses analytics only for trends and titles, and outsources the clickbait packaging to his team.

Videos with 'productive' in the title spiked, tempting Ali to overuse the word
Audiences noticed and Ali felt gross about chasing the keyword
Audience capture turns creators into caricatures of what fans first enjoyed
He limits analytics to multi-month trends, idea generation, titles and thumbnails
Packaging the title and thumbnail is outsourced because he takes no joy in it

“you become a caricature of the person that your audience initially enjoyed”
Ali Abdaal · 15:30

#creators#audience-capture#youtube#incentives

Story1:34:30

A bestseller is a marathon: The Obstacle Is the Way's slow climb

Ryan explains that bestseller lists are scored weekly, so a book selling 10,000 copies in one week charts while a book selling 1,000 a week for a year sells five times as many yet may never chart. The Obstacle Is the Way sold a few thousand its first week, got 'skunked' off the lists, and only hit a list in 2019 near a million copies. Finishing the book is only the first of two marathons; selling it is the second.

Bestseller lists are categorised by the week, rewarding spikes over durability
1,000 copies a week for a year outsells a 10,000-copy launch week many times over
The Obstacle Is the Way charted for the first time five years after release
Make something without an expiration date and treat launch as a marathon
Writing the book is marathon one; marketing and selling it is marathon two

“a book that sells 1,000 copies a week for a year sell five times as many copies but almost certainly not make any bestseller list”
Ryan Holiday · 1:35:30

“you have completed the first of two marathons”
Ryan Holiday · 1:32:00

#publishing#patience#marketing#longevity

Takeaway· 2

Takeaway25:00

Every first draft is bad, and getting comfortable with that is the skill

Ryan invokes the Hemingway line that every first draft is terrible and says you have to get comfortable with the messiness of the process. Ali compares it to unedited YouTube footage no one ever sees. As you improve, drafts get less wasteful, because mastery shows up as conservation of energy: knowing what to shoot or write and cutting the blind alleys.

The first draft of everything is bad; comfort with that mess is required
Audiences only see the polished final product, never the spluttering raw take
Beginners overshoot: an hour of footage for a ten-minute video
As you improve there is less waste left over at the end
A trait of mastery is conservation of energy, applying the right effort at the right moment

“you never see that raw uncut version of a YouTuber's first take you only see the final product”
Ali Abdaal · 25:00

“a trait of Mastery is the conservation of energy”
Ryan Holiday · 26:30

#writing#editing#mastery#craft

Takeaway1:11:30

Parenting comes down to presence, patience and repair

Ryan shares the lessons he most struggles with from writing Daily Dad: the greatest gift is presence, not presents, which is hard in a digital world. Patience matters because breakthroughs come right when you think you can't go on. And drawing on Dr Becky Kennedy, he aims to be a parent good at repair rather than a perfect parent, reconnecting after conflict instead of avoiding mistakes.

The greatest gift to your kids is presence, actually being there, not gifts
Patience: the breakthrough often comes exactly when you think you can't go on
Help your kids become who they are, not the person you want them to be
Aim to be good at repair rather than perfect (via Dr Becky Kennedy)
Writing about parenting daily made Ryan a better parent, regardless of sales

“the greatest thing you can gift your kids is presence like not gifts but presence”
Ryan Holiday · 1:12:00

“don't try to be a perfect parent try to be a parent who's really good at repair”
Ryan Holiday · 1:13:30

#parenting#presence#patience#repair

Key ideas

Frameworks in this episode

Goal to Calendar in Three Steps

Higher Self vs Lower Self Test

Play, Power, People: The Three Energizers

The Odyssey Plan

People & resources mentioned

People · 22

Resources · 35

Insights & moments

⚡Myth Buster· 3

Basking in a win is a hidden productivity loss

'I'm doing it all for them' is usually doing it for you

Passive income mostly isn't passive, but extra income streams buy freedom

◆Hot Take· 2

Amateurs obsess over tools; pros pick a system and stick with it

Kids are ballast, not baggage

✶Explainer· 4

You can't trust a process you haven't been through yet

Run your own race: comparison is madness

We learn as we teach: writing to understand, not to instruct

Procrastination is an emotional problem, not laziness

❝Story· 3

Lock in your next project so outcomes stop controlling you

The productivity keyword trap and the pull of audience capture

A bestseller is a marathon: The Obstacle Is the Way's slow climb

▲Takeaway· 2

Every first draft is bad, and getting comfortable with that is the skill

Parenting comes down to presence, patience and repair

Myth Buster· 3

Hot Take· 2

Explainer· 4

Story· 3

Takeaway· 2