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Helen Tupper (Squiggly Careers)21 July 2023

5 Skills To Succeed in ANY Career - Helen Tupper (Squiggly Careers)

5Frameworks
15Insights

Frameworks in this episode

Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Myth Buster· 1

Myth Buster08:00

Squiggly doesn't mean quitting — you can squiggle inside a company

A common misreading is that squiggling requires a dramatic career change like Ali's. Tupper pushes back: you can squiggle within the same company or the same industry. She works with lawyers, media companies and an international ingredients business full of PhDs who have no wish to retrain — the point of squiggling goes beyond the job title. The question is what your talent is, what you want to be known for, and what gives you energy, then building that beyond the job you're in today and beyond the relationships you already have.

you've had quite an extreme squiggly career but you can still squiggle and stay in a company

Helen Tupper · 06:30

the point of squiggling is it goes beyond a job title

Helen Tupper · 08:30

Hot Take· 2

Hot Take14:00

Anti-ladder, not anti-ambition

Tupper is careful to separate the two. She is not against ambition or seniority — she has been motivated by the ladder herself, because it packages achievement neatly: show up, work hard, go up. The problem starts when promotions dry up or a restructure lands and people conclude they must be failing. If the only definition of progress is promotion and the only definition of success is seniority, disillusionment is eventually guaranteed. Worse, it forces everyone into one definition of success, breeds comparison and competition for roles people don't even want, and produces what she calls progression perfectionism.

we are not anti-ambition I'm not anti people becoming more senior

Helen Tupper · 15:00

if you become so blinkered about your career that the only way you can progress is by getting promoted and the only thing that is…

Helen Tupper · 15:00
Hot Take1:04:30

Side projects aren't hustle culture — they can be a net energy gain

Both push back on the narrative that side projects are hustle-culture nonsense. Tupper's evening Squiggly sessions while at Virgin left her more energised at 8:30pm than when she arrived at 7pm, and that energy carried into how she led her team the next day. She rejects the framing of side projects as competition with the day job: it was a different way to stretch the same strength, and it made her better in both. Ali reports the same pattern from medicine — a full day as a doctor followed by making YouTube videos — while colleagues who 'chilled' with Netflix and scrolling ended up more drained, not less.

I saw a side project as being a different way that I stretched my strength that meant that I got better in both positions

Helen Tupper · 1:04:00

I was so energized because that strength that talent I wanted to be known for was about you know helping people learn develop and grow…

Helen Tupper · 1:03:30

Explainer· 5

Explainer06:00

What a squiggly career actually is

Tupper defines a squiggly career as one where you can develop in different directions rather than being defined by the last job you did. A career, in her framing, is simply a collection of jobs — the journey of the jobs. A squiggly journey creates choice and freedom; a ladder-like journey goes in one direction and leaves you waiting for someone else to gift you a promotion. Once the ladder constraint goes, people stop looking outward at what success looks like on the surface and start looking inward at what they actually want from work.

it is a career where people can develop in different directions so you don't have to be defined by the last job that you did

Helen Tupper · 06:00

it's about not being limited by a ladder not thinking that the only way is up

Helen Tupper · 06:30
Explainer11:30

Where the career ladder came from — and why it no longer fits

The career ladder is over 100 years old, originating in the early-1900s financial services sector, largely for managers trying to create conformity across a rapidly growing clerical workforce so they could manage and motivate it. Tupper's objection is structural: conformity and control were never the ingredients of happy careers, and a model built for one narrow context has been extrapolated everywhere. The world it assumed — predictable, single-employer, clock-in and clock-out — no longer exists. People now do multiple roles in multiple companies, and identify with work far more, which raises questions about purpose and meaning the ladder was never designed to answer.

it's over 100 years old as a concept and start in the financial services sector

Helen Tupper · 11:30

are the ingredients for like happy careers but you know that ladder stuck around for a very long time

Helen Tupper · 12:00
Explainer20:30

Why people end up in jobs they don't enjoy

Tupper's diagnosis has three parts. First, lack of self-awareness: people bounce from one job to the next hoping they'll discover what makes them happy once they've arrived, instead of reflecting before they move. Second, shiny objects — grades, cars, salary above what you actually need — status symbols of ladder-like progression that are persuasive precisely when you haven't reflected. She admits taking a job for the company car and sitting in it wondering whether the job was making her happy. Third, other people's opinions and expectations: when you're unsure, you default to what your manager, partner or family thinks you should do.

self-awareness and a lot of shiny objects

Helen Tupper · 20:30

everyone has a base level of pay that they need for their life and then I think there's money beyond that that can become discretionary…

Helen Tupper · 22:00
Explainer1:05:30

Active rest sits between sleep and restlessness

Tupper cites Alex Pang's idea of a scale running from restful — deep sleep — to restless, the scrolling, over-full mind. You can't sleep during the working day and the restless end isn't working, so the useful zone is active rest in the middle: an activity that consumes your attention and gives energy back. It reframes rest as doing something you enjoy and find consuming rather than doing nothing, and it turns off the noise from work or home. Anything qualifies — puzzles, Scrabble — but if the activity also aligns with a strength you're trying to build, you get the recharge and the reps at once.

Alex Pang always talks about kind of this active rest thing in the Middle where you're doing an activity that consumes your attention that gives…

Helen Tupper · 1:06:00

it can mean doing something that you enjoy that you find consuming

Helen Tupper · 1:06:30
Explainer19:30

Democratise development — why Squiggly Careers exists

Tupper's origin story is a gap she noticed inside large organisations: career support is unlocked by seniority. Make director, get an executive coach, have your epiphany about your life and career. But the uncertainty isn't senior-specific — her friends, colleagues and everyone else were asking the same questions with none of the support. Her conclusion was to take the questions, tools and frameworks and give them to everybody, rather than limiting development by level. The business started as evening training sessions run alongside a five-day-a-week job; the material stuck, people shared it, and it became a book, a podcast and a training company.

don't we take the questions and the tools and the Frameworks and just give them to everybody like democratize development don't limit it by level

Helen Tupper · 20:00

Story· 2

Story48:30

Sarah's Canary Wharf values — why you must repeat the exercise

Tupper's business partner first did her values work alone on the 23rd floor of a Canary Wharf building while working in banking, and produced what Helen calls very Canary Wharf values — achievement-heavy, one-sided. Her manager challenged it: that's surprising, I see other things in you, you light up in other situations, this seems to be only one aspect of you. She redid the exercise elsewhere and the words came out far more nuanced and representative. The lesson is that environment and the people present skew the output, so the exercise needs repeating over time rather than being treated as one-and-done.

that is um an example that we can be influenced by the environment that we're doing this in the people that we might be doing…

Helen Tupper · 49:30

I think you should do these exercises more than once

Helen Tupper · 50:00
Story35:00

Halving her salary to leave Microsoft

While marketing director at Microsoft UK, Tupper was running Squiggly Careers as a side project alongside two children, a podcast and a book, and could see the cost of spreading herself thin across family and work quality. Going full-time on the business meant letting go of identity — working for a big company — and halving her salary. The ladder said get more senior and earn more; the squiggly view said work out what's meaningful, build support around it, and use that to drive your development. People told her it was madness. She credits the decision for her happiness, her impact, and how her children now see work.

let go of that but I also had to halve my salary

Helen Tupper · 36:00

but that has been so much better for my development for my impact for my happiness

Helen Tupper · 36:30

Q&A· 1

Q&A1:37:30

Three favourite pieces of career advice

Asked to pick from the 100 pieces of career advice at the end of the book, Tupper gives three. Hers: run your own race — the one that unhooked her from comparison and gave her confidence. Sarah Ellis's: never live the same year twice, which reflects a strong drive for variety and keeps her growing. And Simon Sinek's, from a podcast interview: you don't have to have all the answers, and you don't have to pretend that you do. She found it liberating to hear someone that successful admit it, and freeing to accept we're all a work in progress. Which quote lands, she notes, depends on what you need right now.

is to run your own race I have found that to be a really enabling piece of career advice

Helen Tupper · 1:37:30

you don't have to have all the answers

Helen Tupper · 1:38:00

Tool· 1

Tool1:07:00

Ali's CALM test for whether an activity actually recharges you

Researching the recharging chapter of his book, Ali found a meta-analysis identifying the properties that make an activity energising, and compressed them into the mnemonic CALM. Competence — you're good at the thing. Autonomy — you feel ownership over it. Liberty — it's sufficiently distinct from your day job, which is why Ed Sheeran paints rather than making music in his downtime. Mellow — it's calm rather than high-energy. He concedes some of the letters are a shoehorn of the study's original wording. His point is that people deprioritise these activities as unimportant, when they're what make everything else in the day more effective.

I did a load of research into the papers and stuff around what is it that makes certain activities energizing

Ali Abdaal · 1:07:00

Takeaway· 3

Takeaway29:30

Find the meaning behind the money

Answering a listener question about balancing salary against exploration, Tupper reframes the money question. Pay matters up to the level your life requires; beyond that, ask what the extra money actually represents — status, significance, security, freedom. For her, more money means being able to do new things, not a bank balance. Working out the meaning behind the money unhooks some of the dependency on pay, and reveals whether that meaning could be found elsewhere. Without doing this, chasing seniority for salary becomes dangerous for happiness — and the next pay freeze hits far harder than it should.

what's the meaning behind the more money is it giving you status is it giving you significance

Helen Tupper · 29:30

when you work out the meaning behind the money you can actually unhook some of your sort of dependency on the pay

Helen Tupper · 30:00
Takeaway28:30

Don't make work your sole source of fulfilment

Once you know your values, the temptation is to extract all of them from your job. Tupper flags this as enmeshment: if freedom, growth, energy and achievement are all meant to come from work, then a fallout with a manager or a road bump in the business flips your achievement value from green to red and takes your entire happiness with it. The alternative is balanced sources of fulfilment. A lot will come from work because you spend a lot of time there, but deliberately asking what you're doing outside work makes you less exposed to changes at work.

I think there was a really big risk that we try to make work the sole source of our fulfillment and that's where you start…

Helen Tupper · 28:30

so I think what we want to do is find balance sources of fulfillment yes a lot of it's going to come from work

Helen Tupper · 29:00
Takeaway58:30

Awareness without action changes nothing

Tupper and her business partner keep returning to awareness and action as a pair. Forms, online surveys, strengths profiles and courses are only inputs; if the output is a report you can recite but can't point to in your week, your development hasn't moved. Ali translates it into a medical rule: there's no point doing a blood test if the result won't change the management plan. Tupper softens the bluntness by connecting people to the why — put strengths into action and you'll be more energised by work you spend most of your time doing, and you'll have more impact because you'll get better at it.

if it's just a load of awareness it's not really doing anything different for your development

Helen Tupper · 59:00

there's no point doing a blood test if the results are not going to change the management plan

Ali Abdaal · 1:01:00