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12 October 2023

How To Win: Rugby Legend Dan Carter's Ultimate Guide to Success

4Frameworks
13Insights

Episode overview

Ali Abdaal speaks with rugby legend Dan Carter about lessons from his career and his book, The Art of Winning. Carter explains how an enduring purpose can guide concrete goals, weekly planning, disciplined preparation, and the ability to enjoy the journey. They also explore performing under pressure, recovering from major setbacks, sustaining humility, handling difficult team conversations, and balancing high performance with family life.

Key ideas

  • A purpose is an enduring direction without a finish line, while goals are specific milestones that can be completed.
  • Turn aspirational “poetry” into practical “plumbing” by translating purpose into yearly, weekly, and daily actions.
  • A Sunday review can restore discipline through a weekly phrase, simple intentions, exercise commitments, gratitude, and honest reflection.
  • Enjoyment supports sustained performance, but purpose and values help maintain discipline when necessary work is uncomfortable.
  • Treat high-performance pressure as a privilege and rehearse it so that demanding situations become familiar.
  • Recognize a distracted “red head” state and use reset tools such as breathing, physical cues, and task-focused questions to return to a calm “blue head” state.
  • After a setback, allow time to grieve, then deliberately reset goals and identify the next team-focused actions.
  • Healthy high-performance teams invite difficult conversations, commit to a shared decision afterward, and develop people rather than treating them only as performers.

Transcript available · source text is retained privately and is not published

Frameworks in this episode

Communication5 steps

Enter the Danger

Flag a hard conversation so it lands as team-first, debate openly, then commit and align

Read →
Mindset5 steps

Grieve, Flick the Switch, Reset

Feel the setback fully for a fixed window, then switch to purpose and reset your goals

Read →
Self-Mastery5 steps

Poetry and Plumbing

Pair an inspiring never-finished purpose with the daily discipline that walks you toward it

Read →
Peak Performance6 steps

Red Head, Blue Head

Spot your pressure state and use a trigger to switch back to calm and task-focused

Read →

People & resources mentioned

Attributed to the moment in the episode. Timestamps are approximate.

People · 15

  • Dan CarterMentionsDan Carter who is one of the greatest rugby players of all time

    “Dan Carter who is one of the greatest rugby players of all time”

    ▶ Watch at ~0:00approx.
  • Ali AbdaalMentionsthe ongoing podcast where every week I get the chance to sit down with inspiring authors, entrepreneurs, creators, and other inspiring people.

    “today on Deep dive it's very exciting because I am joined by the legendary Dan Carter”

    ▶ Watch at ~0:00approx.
  • Julian HearnCoinedwe have the founder of huel Julian Hearn who was on the very first season of the podcast

    “since interviewing the founder Julian Hearn on this podcast in season 1”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:30approx.
  • Warren BuffettRecommendsthe thing that Warren Buffett and basically everyone who sensible in the space recommends

    “the thing that Warren Buffett and basically everyone who sensible in the space recommends”

    ▶ Watch at ~2:30approx.
  • Kevin RobertsMentionshis name was Kevin Roberts he's a former CEO of advertising agency Sai and Sai

    “his name was Kevin Roberts he's a former CEO of advertising agency Sai and Sai”

    ▶ Watch at ~10:00approx.
  • John KirwanMentionsthere was a player called John kin and he caught the ball and he ran the length of the field

    “there was a player called John kin and he caught the ball and he ran the length of the field”

    ▶ Watch at ~13:30approx.
  • David KirkMentionsI still remember the captain of the final David Kirk lifting the will and web Alis cup above his head

    “I still remember the captain of the final David Kirk lifting the will and web Alis cup above his head”

    ▶ Watch at ~14:00approx.
  • Michael JonesMentionsthere was another player Michael Jones who was a really infu influential player that played at that World Cup

    “there was another player Michael Jones who was a really infu influential player that played at that World Cup”

    ▶ Watch at ~14:00approx.
  • Andrew MehrtensMentionsmy teenage years there was Jon ALU Christian Cullen Andrew Merton

    “my teenage years there was Jon ALU Christian Cullen Andrew Merton”

    ▶ Watch at ~15:30approx.
  • Christian CullenMentionsmy teenage years there was Jon ALU Christian Cullen Andrew Merton

    “my teenage years there was Jon ALU Christian Cullen Andrew Merton”

    ▶ Watch at ~15:30approx.
  • Jonah LomuMentionsmy teenage years there was Jon ALU Christian Cullen Andrew Merton

    “my teenage years there was Jon ALU Christian Cullen Andrew Merton”

    ▶ Watch at ~15:30approx.
  • Richie McCawMentionsI'd been the vice captain of the team for three years behind the great Richie mcco

    “I'd been the vice captain of the team for three years behind the great Richie mcco”

    ▶ Watch at ~20:00approx.
  • Steve HansenMentionsthey kept the the coaches Graham Henry Wayne Smith and Steve Hansen

    “they kept the the coaches Graham Henry Wayne Smith and Steve Hansen”

    ▶ Watch at ~53:00approx.
  • Wayne SmithMentionsthey kept the the coaches Graham Henry Wayne Smith and Steve Hansen

    “they kept the the coaches Graham Henry Wayne Smith and Steve Hansen”

    ▶ Watch at ~53:00approx.
  • Graham HenryMentionsthey kept the the coaches Graham Henry Wayne Smith and Steve Hansen

    “they kept the the coaches Graham Henry Wayne Smith and Steve Hansen”

    ▶ Watch at ~53:00approx.

Resources · 21

  • All BlacksMentionsother

    “he played for the All Blacks for over 15 years”

    ▶ Watch at ~0:00approx.
  • HuelUsesproduct · Julian Hearn

    “I've been using he since 2017 since my 5ifth year of medical school”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:30approx.
  • HuelRecommendsproduct · Julian Hearn

    “my favorite ones are banana and salted caramel so if you find those you should check those out”

    ▶ Watch at ~2:00approx.
  • Trading 212Usessoftware · Trading 212

    “I personally use trading 212 to manage a portion of my portfolio”

    ▶ Watch at ~3:00approx.
  • TeslaMentionscompany

    “that Pi might be like I don't know 20% Apple 20% Tesla”

    ▶ Watch at ~3:30approx.
  • AppleMentionscompany

    “that Pi might be like I don't know 20% Apple 20% Tesla”

    ▶ Watch at ~3:30approx.
  • Trading 212Recommendssoftware · Trading 212

    “do please hit the link in the video description or in the show notes”

    ▶ Watch at ~4:00approx.
  • S&P 500Mentionsother · S&P Dow Jones Indices

    “if you invest in the S&P 500 which is a us-based Index Fund”

    ▶ Watch at ~4:00approx.
  • KajabiUsessoftware · Kajabi

    “we've been using kajabi to host all of our online courses since the start of 2023”

    ▶ Watch at ~5:00approx.
  • Part-Time YouTuber FoundationsCoinedcourse · Ali Abdaal

    “from our $1 part-time YouTuber foundations to help people start off on their YouTube Journey”

    ▶ Watch at ~5:00approx.
  • Part-Time YouTuber AcceleratorCoinedcourse · Ali Abdaal

    “the part-time YouTuber accelerator which gives you access to me and my team”

    ▶ Watch at ~5:30approx.
  • Kajabi Hero LiveMentionsevent · Kajabi

    “back in May 2023 I did a keynote at a kajabi in real life kajabi Heroes Event in Austin Texas”

    ▶ Watch at ~6:00approx.
  • Saatchi & SaatchiMentionscompany

    “he's a former CEO of advertising agency Sai and Sai”

    ▶ Watch at ~10:00approx.
  • Webb Ellis CupMentionsproduct

    “David Kirk lifting the will and web Alis cup above his head”

    ▶ Watch at ~14:00approx.
  • All BlacksMentionsother

    “I played my first game for the old blacks”

    ▶ Watch at ~14:30approx.
  • Christchurch Boys' High SchoolMentionsplace

    “moved to a really rich rugby history high school called CH boys high”

    ▶ Watch at ~24:30approx.
  • Feel-Good ProductivityRecommendsbook · Ali Abdaal

    “it is called Feelgood productivity and it's available on Amazon and all other major retailers”

    ▶ Watch at ~48:00approx.
  • AmazonMentionscompany · Jeff Bezos

    “it is called Feelgood productivity and it's available on Amazon and all other major retailers”

    ▶ Watch at ~48:00approx.
  • TelegramUsessoftware

    “I'll share them with our telegram Community if anyone's interested”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:32:00approx.
  • The Art of Winning: Ten Lessons in Leadership, Purpose and PotentialRecommendsbook · Dan Carter

    “this is a sick book The Art of winning we'll put a link down in the video description”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:33:00approx.
  • YouTubeMentionswebsite · Google

    “if you happen to be watching this on YouTube”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:33:00approx.

Spot an error or want something removed? Request a correction or removal.

Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Hot Take· 1

Hot Take54:00

Pressure is a privilege, not a burden

After their 2007 collapse, the All Blacks reframed pressure entirely. The most successful people live with pressure every day, so having it is a mark of the privileged few, not a burden. They chose to walk toward pressure, embrace it, and even manufacture it in training.

  • Most successful people in the world live with pressure every day
  • Reframed from burden to privilege of the lucky few
  • Distinguishes high-performance pressure from survival pressure
  • Choose to walk toward and embrace pressure
  • Enabled by having the right tools to perform in those moments

“it's not a burden to have pressure in your life it's a privilege”

Dan Carter · 54:30
#pressure#mindset#reframe#performance

Explainer· 3

Explainer20:30

Purpose vs goal vs dream: why one has no finish line

Carter distinguishes a goal you can tick off (becoming an All Black) from a visionary purpose you strive toward but never reach (becoming an All Black great). A purpose is a direction and a horizon; choosing it changes how you approach every goal and day beneath it.

  • A goal is achievable and gets ticked off
  • A purpose is aspirational and never actually completed
  • You never plant a flag and declare the purpose achieved
  • The team's purpose became 'most dominant team in the history of world rugby'
  • Purpose is the inspiring direction; goals are milestones along the way

“a goal is something you can achieve ... whereas a really Visionary purpose it's something you strive towards but you never actually achieve”

Dan Carter · 21:00
#purpose#goal-setting#vision#mindset
Explainer1:02:00

How the stigma around seeing a sports psychologist flipped

Early in Carter's career, spending time with the team psychologist marked you as weird and soft; you were meant to roll up your sleeves. By the end, not seeing the psychologist looked odd, because it was seen as an obvious tool to become the best. The second half of his career, when he used the psychologist heavily, is where he saw the most growth.

  • Early 2000s: seeing the psychologist was seen as weak or weird
  • Work was done with the team, rarely one-on-one
  • By career's end, not using the psychologist looked strange
  • Sessions focus on process over outcome and staying present
  • Carter's biggest regret: not using the psychologist from day one

“if there was one thing I would have loved to have used the psychologists from from day one of my career”

Dan Carter · 1:03:30
#sport-psychology#mental-health#stigma#mindset
Explainer1:10:00

Better people make better All Blacks

Carter explains an All Blacks value that inverted the old approach of treating the player purely as a product. By investing in the whole person, their family, culture, village, and sense of belonging, the team built loyalty that translated into better rugby, because cared-for players want to repay the environment.

  • Old model focused only on producing the best rugby player
  • New model bettered the person: family, culture, belonging
  • Management learned players' families, marriages, home villages
  • A sense of belonging made players want to repay the team
  • The by-product of a better person is a better All Black

“better people make better All Blacks”

Dan Carter · 1:10:00
#team-culture#leadership#belonging#wellbeing

Story· 5

Story09:30

Repurposing: rebuilding identity after your career ends

Carter opens on the fear behind the word 'retirement' and the lost feeling of not knowing who he was without rugby. Mentored by former Saatchi & Saatchi CEO Kevin Roberts over six months, he did his first real inward look at his characteristics, beliefs, and past learnings to build a framework for the next chapter.

  • For 18 years his only driver was to be the best rugby player possible
  • Hanging up the boots left him 'a little bit lost'
  • Worked with mentor Kevin Roberts on a repurposing process
  • Listed his characteristics, beliefs, and career learnings to carry forward
  • The framework lets him say no to opportunities off his path

“I was a little bit lost like who am I if I'm not a rugby player”

Dan Carter · 10:00
#retirement#identity#purpose#transition
Story24:30

How losing the love of the game nearly ended Carter's career

At a prestigious rugby high school, Carter got so serious and pressured about becoming an All Black that he had one of his worst seasons and lost his love of the game. He skipped senior rugby to play social under-21 rugby with friends, rediscovered the fun, and within 18 months was at a World Cup.

  • Over-focus and pressure at Christchurch Boys' High crushed his form
  • He 'forgot why I play the game', which is that he loves it
  • Chose social rugby with mates over senior clubs after school
  • Fun and enjoyment brought his best rugby back naturally
  • Made the All Blacks within roughly 18 months

“I forgot why I play the game and it's because I love it and enjoy it”

Dan Carter · 26:00
#enjoyment#burnout#motivation#performance
Story28:00

The day Carter ran his kids' homeschooling like a military camp

In pandemic lockdown, Carter applied his rugby obsession with structure to homeschooling his three children, timetabling every minute like the military. By day's end the kids were in tears and his wife intervened. The regime lasted exactly one day, a lesson that structure without enjoyment backfires.

  • Tried to run 'the best homeschooling system in the world'
  • Rigid minute-by-minute military-style timetable
  • Children ended the day in tears; wife stepped in
  • The system was thrown out after a single day
  • Enjoyment matters as much as structure, even in high performance

“I ran it like a military and we got to the end of the day my children were in tears”

Dan Carter · 28:30
#family#structure#enjoyment#parenting
Story46:30

Best athlete vs best father: Carter's balance struggle

Carter admits he equated providing for his family with lucrative overseas contracts, while his kids just wanted him around. An 'all in on one thing' personality, he swung between total rugby focus and total family focus. His fix was small pockets of presence, sometimes a pep talk or turning off his phone before walking in the door.

  • Confused providing (big contracts) with being present
  • Kids wanted him around more than anything material
  • His all-or-nothing wiring made balance hard
  • Used pep talks and phone-off rituals to be present at home
  • Weekly planning carved out fixed pockets like coaching his son's team

“can you be the world's best father and the world's best athlete”

Dan Carter · 47:00
#family#balance#presence#fatherhood
Story1:16:00

Staying grounded: the CEO who checked his feet were on the ground

Carter names humility as a core value and leans on old friends and family to call him out. After good games, the New Zealand Rugby CEO would literally kick his shoes to check his feet were still on the ground. His school mates remind him about the one kick he missed, not the nine he made.

  • Humility is a core personal and All Blacks value
  • Keeps a close circle who will call him out
  • The NZ Rugby CEO kicked his shoes to keep him grounded
  • Old mates mention the miss, not the makes
  • People who praise only your wins are 'not helpful'

“I'm just making sure your feet are still on the ground”

Dan Carter · 1:16:30
#humility#grounding#friendship#ego

Tool· 3

Tool48:30

The phone-alarm identity switch for changing gears

Abdaal shares his CEO coach's tool that Carter loved: phone alarms labelled with an identity for each mode of the day. At 5:30am it reads 'world's best athlete' for the gym, later 'world's best coach' for work, and at 6pm 'world's best father and husband' to drop work at the doorstep and switch to presence.

  • Set timed alarms labelled with the identity for that block
  • Morning: 'world's best athlete' to trigger gym mode
  • Evening: 'world's best father and husband' to switch off work
  • The label is a cue to change gears and be present
  • Carter, a self-described structure lover, planned to adopt it

“at like 600 p.m. the alarm goes off and says world's best father and husband”

Ali Abdaal · 48:30
#productivity#presence#habits#tools
Tool1:28:30

One-word equity: the single word that defines you now

From the exercises at the back of his book, Carter explains 'one word equity', the single word that captures your character this season. His wife's is 'nurturer'; his is 'Ambassador', for New Zealand, rugby, family, and winning. It is season-specific and expected to evolve every couple of years.

  • Pick one word that defines your character right now
  • Almost like a spirit animal for who you are
  • Carter's is 'Ambassador'; his wife's is 'nurturer'
  • It is season-specific, not fixed for life
  • Revisit it every couple of years as you evolve

“my one word Equity is Ambassador”

Dan Carter · 1:29:00
#self-awareness#identity#exercise#values
Tool1:30:30

Writing your core values so you can check yourself weekly

Carter's final exercise: write a short list of six or so core values you want to live by, such as 'work conquers all' or 'health is wealth', then use them as a weekly checklist. At week's end you ask whether you actually lived each one, and if not, why not, given it matters to you.

  • Start by writing down the values you want to live by
  • Aim for a short list, around six
  • Examples: 'work conquers all', 'health is wealth'
  • Use them as a weekly self-check
  • If you didn't live a value, confront why not

“just having a a list of of your core values that that you live by each and every day”

Dan Carter · 1:31:30
#values#self-review#exercise#accountability

Takeaway· 1

Takeaway31:30

Do what's right when no one's looking

Carter names 'do what's right when no one's looking' as a core value for the unglamorous work like Sunday ice baths after a battering. The mind will offer shortcuts nobody would ever see, but taking them is not high performance, and the hidden work is eventually rewarded.

  • Purpose is what gets you to the work you don't feel like doing
  • Ask what your best self would do in the moment
  • Your mind plays games and offers invisible shortcuts
  • Skipping recovery when unseen still is not high performance
  • Hidden sacrifice gets rewarded at some stage

“do what's right when no one's looking”

Dan Carter · 31:30
#discipline#values#integrity#high-performance