02 November 2023

Stop Wasting Your Life: A Guide To Unlocking Your Full Potential I Entrepreneur Jodie Cook

5Frameworks

15Insights

Episode overview

Ali Abdaal speaks with entrepreneur, author, and powerlifter Jodie Cook about building and selling her social-media agency, launching Coachvox AI, and deliberately choosing the game one plays in business. Cook explains personal success systems, subtraction over addition, and the separation of profession, obsession, and decompression as ways to focus on exceptional work. They also discuss mimetic desire, lifestyle design, relationships, team management, and creating enough mental space for the default mode network to generate ideas.

Key ideas

Choose consciously among the artist, lifestyle, performance, and build-to-sell games instead of inheriting a default model of business success.
Counter addition bias with a start-stop-more-less audit that prioritizes stopping or reducing mediocre commitments.
Discover a personal success system by tracing several achievements from beginning to end, identifying repeated patterns, and deliberately reusing them.
Create blank space for the default mode network through walks, training, showers, and other periods without notifications or active problem-solving.
Separate profession, obsession, and decompression so that each activity receives full attention rather than being weakened by multitasking.
Question mimetic desires absorbed from peers, events, and cultural expectations, then identify the deeper motivation behind personal goals.
Build strong teams around ownership, closing loops, long-term thinking, user manuals, and the ability to challenge a visionary founder's shifting priorities.
Treat relationships intentionally through recurring reviews, rituals, attentive follow-up, and interactions that keep people out of fight-or-flight mode.

Transcript available · source text is retained privately and is not published

Frameworks in this episode

Peak Performance6 steps

Profession, Obsession, Decompression

Sort your whole life into three no-overlap zones so you can be world-class in more than one

Read →

Entrepreneurship5 steps

The Four Games of Business

Name which game you're actually playing before you optimise the wrong one

Read →

Self-Mastery6 steps

The Personal Success System

Reverse-engineer your proudest wins into one repeatable method you can point at any goal

Read →

Mindset5 steps

The Single Motivating Phrase

Find the one sentence that actually drives you, then engineer situations that trigger it

Read →

Productivity5 steps

The Start-Stop-More-Less Life Audit

Beat addition bias by crossing out two boxes and only subtracting

Read →

People & resources mentioned

Attributed to the moment in the episode. Timestamps are approximate.

People · 12

Jodie CookMentionsjod is an award-winning entrepreneur author and actually professional powerlifter as well
“jod is an award-winning entrepreneur author and actually professional powerlifter as well”
▶ Watch at ~0:00approx.
Ali AbdaalMentionsthe ongoing podcast where every week I get the chance to sit down with inspiring authors, entrepreneurs, creators, and other inspiring people.
“what you're about to hear is a conversation between me and jod cook”
▶ Watch at ~0:00approx.
Julian HearnCoinedwe have the founder of huel Julian Hearn who was on the very first season of the podcast
“Julian Hearn who is the founder of hu”
▶ Watch at ~2:00approx.
Warren BuffettRecommendsthe thing that Warren Buffett and basically everyone who sensible in the space recommends
“the thing that Warren Buffett and basically everyone who's sensible in the space recommends which is to invest in Broad stock market index funds”
▶ Watch at ~4:30approx.
Elon MuskMentionsmentioned
“Justine musk Elon musk's exwife”
▶ Watch at ~13:30approx.
Daniel PriestleyMentionshis name's Dan Priestley he written a bunch of business books and this sort of does business coaching and stuff
“about a year ago Dan Priestley our mutual friend came over”
▶ Watch at ~32:00approx.
Jeff BezosMentionswho's a freak of nature whose first business becomes the most valuable business in the world
“everyone's second favorite billionaire Jeff Bezos has a very similar thing”
▶ Watch at ~44:00approx.
Luke BurgisCoinedmentioned
“have you come across that book wanting by Luke Burgess”
▶ Watch at ~1:09:30approx.
René GirardCoinedmentioned
“it's like a whole book about sort of exploring like Renee girard's philosophy on mematic desire”
▶ Watch at ~1:09:30approx.
Thomas EdisonMentionsmentioned
“one of the stories I love is Thomas Edison”
▶ Watch at ~1:17:00approx.
Julia CameronCoinedthe writer Julia Cameron who wrote The Artist way
“the writer Julia Cameron who wrote The Artist way”
▶ Watch at ~1:17:30approx.
Ray DalioCoinedmentioned
“have you read principles Ray Delio”
▶ Watch at ~1:35:00approx.

Resources · 34

Ten Year CareerCoinedbook · Jodie Cook
“she's also the author of the book of the 10-year career reimagine business design your life fast track your freedom”
▶ Watch at ~0:30approx.
HuelUsesproduct · Julian Hearn
“I'll often use hu ready to drink as a replacement for my breakfast or my lunch”
▶ Watch at ~1:30approx.
KajabiUsessoftware · Kajabi
“we've been using kajabi to host all of our online courses since the start of 2023”
▶ Watch at ~3:00approx.
Part-Time YouTuber AcceleratorCoinedcourse · Ali Abdaal
“the part-time YouTuber accelerator which gives you access to me and my team”
▶ Watch at ~3:00approx.
Part-Time YouTuber FoundationsCoinedcourse · Ali Abdaal
“our $1 part-time YouTuber foundations to help people start off on their YouTube Journey”
▶ Watch at ~3:00approx.
Kajabi Hero LiveMentionsevent · Kajabi
“back in May 2023 I did a keynote at a kajabi in real life kajabi Heroes Event in Austin Texas”
▶ Watch at ~3:30approx.
Austin, TexasMentionsplace
“I did a keynote at a kajabi in real life kajabi Heroes Event in Austin Texas”
▶ Watch at ~3:30approx.
Trading 212Usessoftware · Trading 212
“I personally use trading 212 to manage a portion of my portfolio”
▶ Watch at ~4:30approx.
Mad MenUsestv show
“when I was running my agency I started watching Mad Men”
▶ Watch at ~12:30approx.
Sterling CooperMentionscompany
“or just Sterling Cooper to start with”
▶ Watch at ~13:00approx.
LinkedInUseswebsite
“he was doing videos on LinkedIn every single day and just getting new clients”
▶ Watch at ~18:30approx.
ZoomUsessoftware · Zoom Video Communications
“he started teaching people how to present virtually on zoom and set up their Zoom Zone”
▶ Watch at ~18:30approx.
Coachvox AICoinedsoftware · Jodie Cook
“so it's called coach Fox AI we have creators who sign up they configure an AI model to coach and Mentor in their style”
▶ Watch at ~26:30approx.
ForbesUseswebsite
“I've got a column in Forbes on I write about entrepreneurship and AI”
▶ Watch at ~39:30approx.
YouTuber AcademyCoinedcourse · Ali Abdaal and team
“this was a thought process that led to us canceling our YouTuber Academy”
▶ Watch at ~42:30approx.
StarbucksUsescompany
“I had the idea while I was sitting in a Starbucks in Cambridge journaling in a physical pen and paper”
▶ Watch at ~46:00approx.
CambridgeMentionsplace
“I had the idea while I was sitting in a Starbucks in Cambridge journaling in a physical pen and paper”
▶ Watch at ~46:00approx.
WalesMentionsplace
“there was this week where we were at a team retreat in Wales and some nice Airbnb”
▶ Watch at ~49:00approx.
Feel-Good ProductivityCoinedbook · Ali Abdaal
“my book is about to come out it's called Feelgood productivity how to do more what matters to you”
▶ Watch at ~53:00approx.
Apple NotesUsessoftware · Apple
“I have like an Apple notes folder called people”
▶ Watch at ~55:30approx.
Better FriendMentionsproduct
“please can someone out there make an app call it better friend”
▶ Watch at ~56:00approx.
WhisperMentionssoftware · OpenAI
“using like G chat gbt whisper and all that crap”
▶ Watch at ~56:30approx.
ChatGPTMentionssoftware · OpenAI
“using like G chat gbt whisper and all that crap”
▶ Watch at ~56:30approx.
Adobe Premiere ProUsessoftware · Adobe
“he built a Premier Pro plugin that helps cut out pauses and stuff”
▶ Watch at ~56:30approx.
WhatsAppUsessoftware · Meta
“I have like five five zillion unread whatsapps”
▶ Watch at ~57:30approx.
Unleash the Power WithinMentionsevent · Tony Robbins
“that was that's Unleash the Power with it which is a different a different one”
▶ Watch at ~1:05:30approx.
WantingRecommendsbook · Luke Burgis
“have you come across that book wanting by Luke Burgess no it's it's really good”
▶ Watch at ~1:09:30approx.
Built to SellMentionspodcast · John Warrillow
“I was on a podcast called built to sell and John Moro the host said something like we've done 300 episodes”
▶ Watch at ~1:15:00approx.
The Artist's WayCoinedbook · Julia Cameron
“the writer Julia Cameron who wrote The Artist way”
▶ Watch at ~1:17:30approx.
Hyde ParkUsesplace
“I'd go for a walk around hide Park”
▶ Watch at ~1:19:00approx.
The Cultural TutorMentionsnewsletter
“he's got a Twitter account called the cultural tutor”
▶ Watch at ~1:19:30approx.
NotionUsessoftware · Notion Labs
“we have like a little notion page with templates and stuff”
▶ Watch at ~1:31:30approx.
PrinciplesRecommendsbook · Ray Dalio
“it's really worth reading”
▶ Watch at ~1:35:00approx.
InfluenceMentionsbook · Robert Cialdini
“have you read influence I'm guessing you read influence”
▶ Watch at ~1:41:30approx.

Spot an error or want something removed? Request a correction or removal.

Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Myth Buster· 1

Myth Buster10:00

The two conveyor belts that quietly choose your life for you

Cook argues we're conditioned onto two default paths without questioning them: the education conveyor belt (GCSEs, A-levels, university, graduate scheme) and then the career conveyor belt (get a job, climb the ladder). It only becomes clear the path was wrong ten years later. Escaping it means being happy to look different, make odd decisions, and risk looking stupid.

The first belt is education; the second is climbing the career ladder
You rarely question either because everyone around you is on them
Whether it was right only becomes obvious about ten years on
Getting off requires being okay with looking different and possibly failing
Something other than the default path might be right for you

“the first conveyor belt that we get on is the education conveyor belt... and then after that it's the career conveyor belt and that's where…”
Jodie Cook · 10:00

#career#conditioning#conformity#entrepreneurship

Hot Take· 1

Hot Take15:00

Most people aren't scared of failure, they're scared of success

Cook flips the usual assumption: many people who think they fear failure actually fear success. They worry they won't be able to handle a new level, will have to change, and that friends in their safe bubble might reject them or say they've got too big for their boots. That hidden fear drives self-sabotage and avoiding the things they know would work.

People believe they won't cope with a new level of success
Success forces you to change, which can feel threatening
Peers in your current bubble may reject the new version of you
The fear leads to self-sabotage and not doing what works
Applies to things like a YouTube channel suddenly taking off

“I actually think a lot of people think they're scared of failure but I think a lot of people are actually scared of success”
Jodie Cook · 15:00

#fear-of-success#self-sabotage#psychology#mindset

Explainer· 5

Explainer12:00

Entrepreneurship is a game of constant reframing

Cook describes entrepreneurship as more stuff getting thrown at you than anything else: clients come and go, team churns, fires burn daily. The skill is reframing so each fire bothers you less, then handling bigger ones. She cites a Mad Men partner asking 'are you going to walk up the hall every time we lose a client?' and Justine Musk's line about getting comfortable with stress that would break most people.

You'll be putting out many fires every single day
The game is getting okay with the fire, then handling bigger ones
It builds a mental toughness people don't anticipate
Mad Men: don't wear the carpet out pacing over every lost client
Justine Musk: get comfortable with stress that would break most people

“someone recently described entrepreneurship to me as a game of constant reframing”
Jodie Cook · 12:00

“are you going to walk up the hall every time we lose a client like you'll wear the carpet out”
Jodie Cook · 13:00

#resilience#stress#mindset#entrepreneurship

Explainer23:00

Agency vs software: what actually changes when you switch models

Having built an agency and now running Coach Fox AI, Cook contrasts the two. In an agency you can invent an offer and sell it before you build it; software is front-end loaded because you must build before you sell. Agency clients are worth thousands and you scale headcount with clients; software clients are worth $99 a month, which reshapes the whole relationship.

Agency: sell first, deliver after; software: build first, then sell
Agencies scale headcount (or ad spend) as clients grow, creating friction
Agency clients worth thousands vs software clients worth ~$99/month
She still instinctively over-cares when a small software client cancels
A common path is using agency revenue to fund building software products

“in agency you can make something up and you can sell it straight away... in software you probably shouldn't do that”
Jodie Cook · 25:00

#business-models#agency#saas#scaling

Explainer1:02:30

Menu psychology: the pricing tricks restaurants use on you

From researching her book and working in an Italian restaurant, Cook shares how menus are engineered to make you spend. The most expensive item sits top-right, where your eye lands first, to make everything else look cheap. Currency symbols and decimals are removed so you don't think about money, numbers don't line up so you can't compare, and the second-cheapest wine carries the biggest margin.

Most expensive item goes top-right to anchor everything else as cheap
No currency symbols, because they make you think of money and tighten up
Avoid lined-up numbers so diners can't easily compare and pick cheapest
People avoid the cheapest wine to not look cheap, so #2 has the best margin
The restaurant even played 'music to watch customers buy' to prime spending

“the most expensive item goes in the top right because that's where your eyes go first the purpose of that item is to make everything…”
Jodie Cook · 1:03:30

#pricing#psychology#persuasion#marketing

Explainer1:07:30

Mimetic desire: are your goals actually yours?

Cook and Abdaal explore how we copy what others want without questioning it, picking up accents, and goals, within an hour of conversation. Abdaal cites Luke Burgess's Wanting: thick desires build over a long time and feel truly yours, while thin desires (like wanting to 10x after meeting eight-figure founders) are volatile. His team now ignore everything he says for three days after a trip.

We adopt others' desires to avoid being excluded from the group
Thick desires build over time and feel authentically yours
Thin desires shift based on who you just spent time with
Abdaal's team ignore his ideas for three days after he travels
Choose who you spend time with, because it shapes what you want

“whenever Alie comes back from a trip we're just going to ignore everything he says for at least three days because chances are he's going…”
Ali Abdaal · 1:10:00

#mimetic-desire#goals#self-knowledge#influence

Explainer1:06:30

Use your default mode network to let answers find you

Cook explains the default mode network as how your mind solves problems when you're not actively thinking, accessible only in theta rather than beta brain waves. She cites Edison napping with a metal ball to catch ideas and Julia Cameron's daily walk where inspiration arrived. Because we're never bored, we stay in beta and never tap this powerful part of the brain.

The default mode network works when you're not actively thinking
It only engages in theta brain waves, not beta
Edison napped holding a metal ball to catch ideas as he dozed off
Ideas arrive in the shower or on a walk for the same reason
Constant stimulation keeps us in beta and blocks this mode

“your default mode network is how your mind figures out information when you're not actively thinking about it”
Jodie Cook · 1:16:30

#creativity#neuroscience#focus#ideas

Story· 3

Story06:00

Starting a business at 22 with a two-word plan: get clients

Cook launched her social media agency in 2011 with no business plan beyond 'get clients'. She rocked up to networking events, stood up and announced she was a social media manager, and convinced people to hire her. At her first prospect meeting she leaned on her dad's sales mantra, then turned the first client into a case study to win clients two and three.

Started at 22 with no plan other than 'get clients'
Won work by standing up at networking events and pitching herself
Social media was so niche in 2011 that few competitors existed
Used her dad's line: knowledge instills confidence, confidence instills enthusiasm, enthusiasm sells
Turned client one into a case study to land clients two and three

“knowledge instills confidence confidence instills enthusiasm and enthusiasm sells cars and vans... I was selling social media management but it's no different”
Jodie Cook · 07:00

#startup-story#sales#networking#agency

Story17:30

Shrinking 25% in a week, then asking 'how can I use this?'

In March 2020 Cook's agency shrank 25% in one week as hospitality, travel and events clients cancelled. Instead of panicking, she asked what she calls life's most important question: 'how can I use this?' Inspired by peers pivoting fast, she rallied the team to pour spare capacity into courses, webinars and nurturing the middle of the funnel, growing the company back and beyond within five months.

Lost a quarter of the company in a single week of COVID cancellations
Reframed with the question 'how can I use this?'
Was inspired by a friend who rebranded overnight to 'presenting virtually'
Redirected spare capacity into courses, daily webinars and email nurture
Recovered and grew ~20% within five months, keeping clients who returned

“I think that probably the most important question just in life is how can I use this”
Jodie Cook · 18:00

#pivot#crisis-management#covid#resilience

Story1:32:00

Gottman's masters vs disasters and the heart-rate test for relationships

Cook recounts John Gottman's love-lab study, which labelled couples 'masters' or 'disasters' and predicted with ~99% accuracy who'd stay together. The biggest indicator of relationship longevity was resting heart rate around each other: too much cortisol and fight-or-flight can't sustain long term. Cook applies it to team members too, asking how not to put people into constant fight-or-flight.

Gottman labelled couples 'masters' or 'disasters' in his love lab
He predicted who stayed together with roughly 99% accuracy
The top longevity indicator was resting heart rate around each other
High cortisol and fight-or-flight can't survive the long term
Cook applies it to leadership: don't keep your team in fight-or-flight

“the biggest indicator of relationship longevity was resting heart rate when you're around each other and it's all to do with fight or flight”
Jodie Cook · 1:33:30

#relationships#gottman#leadership#psychology

Q&A· 1

Q&A22:00

Would she still start a social media agency today? Yes, but niche hard

Asked whether an SMMA is still worth starting, Cook says yes because it needs almost no startup capital, just knowledge, enthusiasm, confidence and a way to get in front of clients. In 2011 social media was so niche she served everyone on every platform. Today she'd niche down aggressively, becoming the recognised expert in something like 'LinkedIn for dentists' or 'Twitter for carpet cleaners'.

Agencies are cheap to start: knowledge and enthusiasm over capital
In 2011 social media itself was the niche, so no further focus was needed
Today she'd niche extremely tightly by platform and client type
Examples: LinkedIn for dentists, Twitter for carpet cleaners
Goal is to be known as the expert in one narrow area

“if I was starting it now I would Niche down so much I would be like LinkedIn for dentists or Twitter for carpet cleaners”
Jodie Cook · 22:30

#agency#niche#positioning#smma

Tool· 2

Tool26:00

AI clones of thought leaders and the vendetta against dusty content

Cook's software company Coach Fox AI lets creators configure an AI coach trained on their content, personality and frameworks, tuned with style sliders. Audiences chat with it for guidance, so creators use it as a lead-gen tool, a paid product, or a membership value-add. Her framing: a 'vendetta against dusty content', turning your archive into something that answers each person's specific problem.

Creators upload content and set style sliders (coaching/funny/formal)
The AI answers audience questions in the creator's voice and frameworks
Used as lead generation, a paid subscription, or membership add-on
Reframes buried old content around the reader's specific problem
Kept explicitly labelled as AI; separation from the real person matters

“we are on a massive Vendetta against Dusty content... once you train an AI model on your content and your Frameworks and your personality it…”
Jodie Cook · 27:30

#ai#creators#lead-generation#content

Tool57:30

Inbox zero for WhatsApp and a voice-note personal CRM

Cook shares two systems. For overwhelming WhatsApp, configure it so all chats archive and only new messages appear, treating the inbox like a to-do list you batch and swipe to archive once the ball's in their court. For relationships, after seeing someone she records a five-minute voice note on what they discussed and how she felt, which doubles as an energy audit of who's worth seeing again.

Archive all WhatsApp chats so only new messages hit your inbox
Treat the inbox as a batch-processed to-do list, swipe to archive when done
After meeting someone, record a five-minute voice note on the way out
Replay it before you next meet them to remember and progress the relationship
Notice how you feel afterwards to spot who gives versus drains energy

“you can configure it so that all your chats are archived and only new messages come into your WhatsApp inbox and then it means that…”
Jodie Cook · 57:30

#productivity#inbox-zero#relationships#systems

Takeaway· 2

Takeaway1:00:30

Everything is sales, and sales hides a lot of problems

Chapter six of Cook's book argues everything is sales: no sales means no clients, and without clients you're not self-employed but unemployed. Lots of sales also tends to make other problems disappear, because with enough clients you can figure everything else out. The caveat is that revenue can mask problems that later escalate, so the goal is to sell while also building systems.

No sales means no clients, which means unemployed not self-employed
Enough clients lets you solve almost every other problem
The dangerous moment is having to find clients and fix everything at once
Money coming in can hide problems you stop paying attention to
Ideal is making sales while simultaneously building systems and processes

“everything is sales because if you don't make sales then you don't have clients and if you don't have clients you're not self-employed you're unemployed”
Jodie Cook · 1:01:00

#sales#business#systems#revenue

Takeaway1:41:30

Stand out by being genuinely impressive, not by scattergun applying

Cook and Abdaal agree that the way to get noticed, whether pitching for work or emailing a busy person, is going far above and beyond in effort. Cook's agency made applicants 'impress us', invoking Cialdini's Influence: the harder something is to get into, the more you value it. Abdaal urges job-seekers to make a video for two or three target companies rather than blasting 5,000 CVs.

Effort and specificity make cold emails and applications stand out
Cook's agency told applicants to 'impress us', and they made videos and characters
Cialdini's Influence: hard-to-join things get valued more (fraternities, Navy SEALs)
Abdaal: make a video for 2-3 dream companies, not 5,000 generic CVs
Take the sniper approach, not the scattergun

“the harder it is to get into somewhere the more you'll be like ah I earn this I value it I'm going to make the…”
Jodie Cook · 1:42:00

#standing-out#job-search#influence#outreach

Key ideas

Frameworks in this episode

Profession, Obsession, Decompression

The Four Games of Business

The Personal Success System

The Single Motivating Phrase

The Start-Stop-More-Less Life Audit

People & resources mentioned

People · 12

Resources · 34

Insights & moments

⚡Myth Buster· 1

The two conveyor belts that quietly choose your life for you

◆Hot Take· 1

Most people aren't scared of failure, they're scared of success

✶Explainer· 5

Entrepreneurship is a game of constant reframing

Agency vs software: what actually changes when you switch models

Menu psychology: the pricing tricks restaurants use on you

Mimetic desire: are your goals actually yours?

Use your default mode network to let answers find you

❝Story· 3

Starting a business at 22 with a two-word plan: get clients

Shrinking 25% in a week, then asking 'how can I use this?'

Gottman's masters vs disasters and the heart-rate test for relationships

?Q&A· 1

Would she still start a social media agency today? Yes, but niche hard

✦Tool· 2

AI clones of thought leaders and the vendetta against dusty content

Inbox zero for WhatsApp and a voice-note personal CRM

▲Takeaway· 2

Everything is sales, and sales hides a lot of problems

Stand out by being genuinely impressive, not by scattergun applying

Myth Buster· 1

Hot Take· 1

Explainer· 5

Story· 3

Q&A· 1

Tool· 2

Takeaway· 2