Professor Thomas Curran29 June 2023

World Expert On Why Perfectionism Is Your Enemy And How To Overcome It - Professor Thomas Curran

4Frameworks

14Insights

Frameworks in this episode

Productivity6 steps

Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Myth Buster· 3

Myth Buster02:30

Perfectionism is not a hardwired trait you are stuck with

The main thing we have misunderstood is where perfectionism comes from. Most people assume it is a hardwired personality trait. Twin studies comparing identical and non-identical twins against adopted siblings put heritability of self-oriented and socially prescribed perfectionism at roughly thirty to forty percent, which leaves the majority to the environment. That is why Curran describes it as a cultural phenomenon: the world around us constantly signals that there is always bigger and better to reach for.

“And we know that about 30 to 40% of perfectionism is genetics, that's to say heritage.”
Thomas Curran · 03:00

“The world around us radiates perfection.”
Thomas Curran · 03:30

Myth Buster12:00

Across 40,000 young people, no gender difference in perfectionism

Curran expected a gender effect and did not find one. Across a sample of over forty thousand young people, entering gender into the regression model explained nothing, and men and women scored relatively similarly on aspects of perfectionism. Ali pushes back, noting neuroticism and conscientiousness both skew female and that most self-identified perfectionists he knows are women. Curran's answer is that the trait correlations share only around twenty-five to thirty percent of variance, so aggregate mean levels need not follow, and that women may still be more exposed to environments that trigger perfectionism.

“So, when we take these 40,000 people and we try to explain levels of perfectionism based on the number of females in the sample, we…”
Thomas Curran · 12:30

Myth Buster45:00

Perfectionists do not actually perform better

Conventional wisdom points to self-confessed perfectionists like Serena Williams, Victoria Pendleton, Steve Jobs and Demi Lovato and credits perfectionism for their success. The data shows no relationship between perfectionism and performance. Two reasons: they work past the point of diminishing returns while sacrificing sleep, diet and exercise until they burn out, and they withdraw effort once failure becomes likely. Ali calls it self-sabotage, and Curran agrees flatly.

“we find no relationship between perfectionism and performance”
Thomas Curran · 46:00

“Perfectionists are world-class self-sabotagers.”
Thomas Curran · 49:30

Hot Take· 3

Hot Take32:30

Letting go is not equally available to everyone

Curran's main caveat on his own advice. Self-help is predicated on meditation, positive thinking and self-care after setbacks, all noble, but for some people the consequences of letting things happen are catastrophic: losing a tenancy, surviving on minimum wage. Letting go is not created equally. He argues for both individual work and collective responsibility to make the consequences of things going wrong less severe, and refuses to go all in on authenticity and vulnerability without acknowledging who can afford it.

“Because if you're poor and you let things happen and things don't go well, the impact of that is can be catastrophic.”
Thomas Curran · 33:00

Hot Take1:17:30

Why Curran does not believe in the growth mindset

Curran is not against growth, which he calls fundamental to human development. He is against the demand to grow at all times. Mantras like you can't let your failures define you, or fail better, sound noble but imply that dwelling in failure is shameful and must be immediately rehabilitated onto a redemptive arc. He wants failure allowed to exist untouched as a humanizing part of life. Ali reframes it as any virtue taken to excess becoming a vice, and the balance between self-improvement and self-acceptance.

“I'm not against growth. I think growth is absolutely fundamental to human development. But, what I am against is the sense that we have to…”
Thomas Curran · 1:18:00

“growth is fine but sometimes you won't always grow and that's also fine”
Thomas Curran · 1:20:00

Hot Take1:11:00

Social media stopped being a social network and became an advertising device

Curran's view is nuanced, not anti-social-media. Facebook began as a genuine social network, greasing the wheels of campus life and organising socials around shared interests, and the technology still has power to bring people together and facilitate offline relationships. But the business model is advertising, so algorithms optimise for keeping people online, amplifying unrealistic ideals and manufacturing discontent that targeted ads then solve materially. His recommended strategies are understanding the deficit model first, then using the platforms for their original purpose: building community around real interests and facilitating offline relationships. Education for young people matters more than removing it.

“it's gearing itself towards creating those kind of aspects of discontent that are very catnip for perfectionism, catnip for advertisers”
Thomas Curran · 1:13:30

“I think it's really about learning what what social media is first and foremost, understanding that it is an advertising device.”
Thomas Curran · 1:14:00

Explainer· 5

Explainer01:30

Perfectionism is a worldview rooted in deficit, not high standards

Curran defines perfectionism as a way of seeing and interpreting the world and our interactions with others. Most people assume it is active, optimistic high-striving, and perfectionists do hold excessive standards, but the standards come from a place of deficit: I am not good enough, so I must prove to others that I am worth something. That deficit thinking, not the standards themselves, is the core of the trait.

“So, perfectionism is really a uh worldview, I suppose, the the way we see and interpret the world and our interactions with other people.”
Thomas Curran · 01:30

“But it comes from a place of deficit.”
Thomas Curran · 02:00

Explainer13:30

Individualistic versus collectivistic cultures produce different perfectionism

Ethnicity data is missing, but cross-cultural data exists. In individualistic cultures self-oriented perfectionism dominates, the sense that it is up to you and only you to make something of yourself. In collectivistic cultures socially prescribed perfectionism dominates, the sense that everybody around you expects you to be perfect, driven by community interdependency and push. Ali maps this onto friends from Pakistani and Chinese families carrying explicit family expectation, versus white friends with no family pressure who still struggle with perfectionism.

“in individualistic cultures, we tend to see perfectionism and this kind of self-perfectionism that comes from within, this kind of sense of I need to…”
Thomas Curran · 13:30

Explainer17:00

The four cultural engines: consumer culture, social media, school, work

Curran maps the areas of life where perfectionism is amplified. Consumer culture holds us perpetually in deficit because contented people do not consume or work. Social media puts that model on a platform where our own content creates the aura of discontent targeted ads exploit. Schools and colleges are fiercely competitive, since elite college places gate elite jobs. Workplaces are insecure and hustle-oriented compared with our parents' era. He adds that expectations on young women around image and appearance, and structural hurdles for people from lower social classes and marginalised backgrounds, raise the pressure further.

“those those core factors are within consumer culture and this kind of idea that we're we're held perpetually in a sense of deficit”
Thomas Curran · 17:30

Explainer44:00

Perfectionist versus narcissist: who believes the bulletproof narrative

Other-oriented perfectionism can appear fused with self-oriented perfectionism, damaging both relationships and the person's own mental health, or divorced from perfectionism and fused with narcissism instead. The critical difference is belief. The perfectionist does not believe the bulletproof narrative they project; they feel flawed and worthless underneath and use others' validation as props for very low self-esteem. The narcissist believes it, so their self-esteem is high and the cost lands entirely on the people around them, which is why a narcissistic perfectionist boss is so draining to work for.

“The perfectionist doesn't believe the bulletproof narrative they're trying to construct for themselves deep down.”
Thomas Curran · 44:00

“Narcissists are very different. Their self-esteem is really high because they believe the narrative the bulletproof narrative that they're constructing for themselves.”
Thomas Curran · 44:30

Explainer1:21:30

The tyranny of should and the tyranny of could

Karen Horney, writing on perfectionism in the 1930s to 1950s, named the tyranny of should: we feel we should be fitter, stronger, happier, healthier, more productive, and these tyrannical shoulds open a divide between the imperfect person we are and the perfect person society says we should be. Curran adds a second tyranny for a meritocratic culture, the tyranny of could, telling us from above what we could be if we tried hard enough, so we are pincered between the two. Horney ended at Zen Buddhism, a big influence on his thinking.

“Uh talked about something called the tyranny of should.”
Thomas Curran · 1:21:30

“I'd add another tyranny in today's culture, the tyranny of could”
Thomas Curran · 1:25:30

Story· 2

Story22:00

The carpenter grandfather who never loitered for a five-star review

Curran's grandfather was a master craftsman with a real eye for detail, working in an era with no five-star reviews and no MyBuilder profile. He made everyday things people needed, delivered them, and left without waiting for validation or a fire emoji. If he left a bit of varnish or a screw jutting imperceptibly above the wood, he let the mistake wash through him as a sign of his fallibility, like his wrinkles. For Curran that is the line between a conscientious striver and a perfectionist.

“And he delivered those things to their new homes, didn't loiter for validation or a five-star review or a fire emoji.”
Thomas Curran · 23:00

Story28:00

Curran's own perfectionism, imposter phenomenon and a book two years late

Curran describes his own traits: worry about what others think, whether he is doing enough, whether he belongs. Imposter phenomenon runs strong among perfectionists, particularly those who moved from a working-class background into a middle-class world, where you doubt whether you deserve to be there and feel you must prove daily that you are good enough while disguising a flawed inner self. It consumed his twenties and led to significant mental health problems, which prompted his research interest. His book ran two years overdue as he tinkered up to press day.

“And you and you think inside, I have to prove every day that I'm good enough, that I deserve to be here”
Thomas Curran · 28:30

“I mean, you know, my book is 2 years overdue.”
Thomas Curran · 50:00

Takeaway· 1

Takeaway1:35:00

The closing three words: you are enough

Asked for parting wisdom for anyone still struggling with perfectionism, Curran offers three words. Being a human being who exists is itself sufficient, and he frames this as the most important lesson to carry through life, something to remember both when things go well and when they do not. You are human, we fail, you are enough.

“You are a human being. You exist, so you are enough.”
Thomas Curran · 1:35:00